Need Some Well Pump Advice

[Andyrud]

Hi Guys and sorry for the long post.

I am new to the forum and would really appreciate some advice. But first I need to give you a little background. I have a small cabin that is 6 miles in on dirt roads and off the grid. I have a 3000 gallon water storage tank that is 35 feet above the cabin and produces about 17 psi in the cabin. I have a well that is about 600 feet away from the tank. The well is 80 feet deep, but depending on the time of the year, the water level is between 5 feet and 14 feet from the ground level. I have a 1950s era Onan engine running on propane, hooked up to a brass Oberdorfer 1 ¼” positive displacement gear pump by 3 belts. The pump is above ground and drafts water from the well and through a 1 ¼” pvc pipe, dumps water into the top of the tank. In this configuration about 10 to 12 gpm is pumped into the tank. When the sight glass shows ¼ tank I drive down to the well and manually start the system and manually shut it off when the tank is full and then drain the pipes from the well to the tank. Great system and has been working almost flawlessly for over 40 years. HOWEVER, I am the only one who would know how to fix this setup. I am getting pretty old and want my heirs to be able to call a well guy if the water system needs repairs so I want to convert the system to a submersible pump and a generator that must run on propane. The new system must still be a simple manual system, that is start the generator, let it warm up, throw a switch to start the pump, etc.. So, here are my questions:

1. Best pump manufacturer to use, what pump model, 2 or 3 wire, what HP, etc.

2. Best propane generator to use, best manufacturer, wattage, etc. (200 gallon propane tank is at the well)

3. Any advice would be much appreciated!!

 

[Texas Wellman]

Grundfos makes a pump called SQ that has no start-up surge that plays very nice with generators. Depending upon the size of the pump you'll need anywhere from a 3500w to a 5500w to start a regular submersible. You should be able to run a 1/2 HP Grundfos SQ (they even make a 115V version) with about a ~2KW genset or possibly even a high quality inverter.

Also, since you're off-grid and using fuel/generator you should really check into a solar pump. With that high of a water level you can probably get by with one ~200 watt panel and something like a Lorentz PS150. The upfront cost will be high but there will be no further need for fuel etc. With the lorentz you can attach a float switch and have the pump switch on/off when the level dictates it. Considering the cost of a generator and fuel if I were you i would choose this route.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Ballvalve]

The solar solution sounds good as above. I know your problem - I am in California Sierras and have many properties, some with very esoteric water systems that could bankrupt my family if I died and they called the average pump guy for a repair. I have made diagrams of the water systems at some of these properties and placed them in the pump houses. I draw them on black melamine with a white paint marker for long life, and they include the well depth, pump installed, location of water lines and check valves and notes on how all this stuff is supposed to work together. When you have a 20 or 80 acre property and pipes of all sorts running to and fro, electric, water, propane, septic, such a map can be worth many thousands of dollars to your heirs or the next guy on the lands.

As for your situation, it does not sound very incomprehensible to the next owner. I might not make any changes - if it works and its all visible, why not let it be? That pump might last another 20 years. If you just want to make it more modern, then there are many nice US made Briggs or Kohler propane gensets for $1800 to $2800 on the market. They will start any 1/2 to 1.5 hp submersibles out there. With your type of use, any decent Franklin or USA submersible pumps will suffice.

 

[Valveman]

The people at this link make a generator with an auto start/stop feature that you can control from a float switch or pressure switch.
http://dietschmanufacturing.com/

Either way someone is going to have to maintain an engine. Younger people might be better off with the solar as they seem to be less mechanically inclined.

 

[Andyrud]

Grundfos makes a pump called SQ that has no start-up surge that plays very nice with generators. Depending upon the size of the pump you'll need anywhere from a 3500w to a 5500w to start a regular submersible. You should be able to run a 1/2 HP Grundfos SQ (they even make a 115V version) with about a ~2KW genset or possibly even a high quality inverter.

Also, since you're off-grid and using fuel/generator you should really check into a solar pump. With that high of a water level you can probably get by with one ~200 watt panel and something like a Lorentz PS150. The upfront cost will be high but there will be no further need for fuel etc. With the lorentz you can attach a float switch and have the pump switch on/off when the level dictates it. Considering the cost of a generator and fuel if I were you i would choose this route.

Special thanks for the reply. I am very familiar with solar stuff as the cabin has a small solar electric system. Unfortunately I can't use solar at the well because the well is in a tight steep canyon with fir and redwood trees all around that block the sun.

 

[Andyrud]

The solar solution sounds good as above. I know your problem - I am in California Sierras and have many properties, some with very esoteric water systems that could bankrupt my family if I died and they called the average pump guy for a repair. I have made diagrams of the water systems at some of these properties and placed them in the pump houses. I draw them on black melamine with a white paint marker for long life, and they include the well depth, pump installed, location of water lines and check valves and notes on how all this stuff is supposed to work together. When you have a 20 or 80 acre property and pipes of all sorts running to and fro, electric, water, propane, septic, such a map can be worth many thousands of dollars to your heirs or the next guy on the lands.

As for your situation, it does not sound very incomprehensible to the next owner. I might not make any changes - if it works and its all visible, why not let it be? That pump might last another 20 years. If you just want to make it more modern, then there are many nice US made Briggs or Kohler propane gensets for $1800 to $2800 on the market. They will start any 1/2 to 1.5 hp submersibles out there. With your type of use, any decent Franklin or USA submersible pumps will suffice.

Special thanks for the reply. I am very familiar with solar stuff as the cabin has a small solar electric system. Unfortunately I can't use solar at the well because the well is in a tight steep canyon with fir and redwood trees all around that block the sun.

 

[Texas Wellman]

Is there any wind in the canyon?

It's also possible that you could angle the panels to catch the sun at mid-day when it's overhead. You'll only have a few hours to do this but if you're pumping 10-15 gpm I think you could catch enough water. Also you'd be suprised at how much sun you can catch with just ambient light. Solar panels are pretty cheap, you could add 3-4 panels to allow you to catch the sun at different angles etc. to offset the lack of light.

 

[Andyrud]

Is there any wind in the canyon?

It's also possible that you could angle the panels to catch the sun at mid-day when it's overhead. You'll only have a few hours to do this but if you're pumping 10-15 gpm I think you could catch enough water. Also you'd be suprised at how much sun you can catch with just ambient light. Solar panels are pretty cheap, you could add 3-4 panels to allow you to catch the sun at different angles etc. to offset the lack of light.

Is there any wind in the canyon?

It's also possible that you could angle the panels to catch the sun at mid-day when it's overhead. You'll only have a few hours to do this but if you're pumping 10-15 gpm I think you could catch enough water. Also you'd be suprised at how much sun you can catch with just ambient light. Solar panels are pretty cheap, you could add 3-4 panels to allow you to catch the sun at different angles etc. to offset the lack of light.

No Wind to speak of. I'll look again for a good solar spot. Thanks

 

[PumpMd]

Some extra info about what they have to offer for Lorentz


http://www.lorentz.de/en/products/solar-pump-accessories.html