figucp0
New Member
I have used this site in the past for reference when I am doing projects or having work done and I greatly respect the knowledge base represented by the members here. Therefore I figured this was a good place to try and get some consensus regarding my experience and how to proceed. I apologize that this will be a bit long. Also I am in the triad area in NC for code related questions.
When our range died about a month ago my wife and I decided we would replace our all electrical range with a slide in dual fuel gas range w/electric oven. This meant that a new branch would need to be added to the low pressure gasline that currently fed our 3 furnaces and a water heater. I knew that calculating the available overhead would be necessary to see if it could be done without changing the meter/manifold. I used some literature I found online and did the calculations for myself and figured it should be possible. I briefly considered found the work myself, it was after all a simple run off the main pipe with only one 90’degree turn, about 20 feet of total pipe. I have never done any natural gas plumbing other than hooking up a stove for some neighbors once, and hooking up kilns in a ceramics studio. I have however run lines for compressed air both black pipe and copper and have a fair bit of other plumbing. I have a strong understanding of the concepts and practices involved, am mechanically inclined, and meticulous when I do things. Despite this I decided to hire out.
One of the companies I called offered to send someone to do a free estimate. Guy arrives, seems very thorough and knowledgeable, redoes calculations, confirms my conclusion, and proceeds to give me two estimates. One for running the line which was pretty expensive (well <$1000) and one to install the line and hook up the stove (well <$1000+$200). They would handle all permits and inspections. Although it was more than I had anticipated and more than competing “guess” estimates (not paying to send someone out) they won my business because they sent someone out who took measurements and I knew I could trust the estimate. We purchase the range from Costco so they send plumbers out to connect the stove for free so we went with the first option. It seemed a little nickel and dime or nickel and $200 to me to charge extra to attach a stove regardless. When the installers arrived they put in the line, put it on test, I waited for the inspection two days later. I was a bit disconcerted when the test pressure (30 psi) began to drop about a 1.5psi per day. The inspector, arrived found a fitting without tapered threads informed me that this was not allowed and failed the inspection. He also noted some other things that might not be against code but were against his best practices. The plumber put the system on test against a single closed valve but already tied into the main line. He said they needed to remove it and cap it. He also didn’t like that valve was placed inside a cabinet, and said the flex line would not be allowed to go through the cabinet. It would have to be a piece of hard pipe. He asked why we didn’t just put it behind the oven (which ironically would have been my preference). I told him that was what I requested but was told that it was now illegal in NC to install a valve behind the range; it had to be in the cabinet. He said that was not the case and repeated that if we did it this way we need to add a piece of hard pipe (no flex through wall or cabinet). The plumber initially says the inspector is crazy and that we will call and go over his head regarding the valve and flex placement, but when he comes to change out the not permitted fitting he adds a piece of pipe requested by the inspector and puts it back on test. I mention my concern regarding the leak and he leak checks with bubble solution again to appease me before leaving. Again the system fails to hold pressure over the weekend and is 5psi lower when the inspector comes back on Monday to review the changes. Here is the thing, despite this the install passed “rough inspection ” (needle didn’t seem to move for 15 minutes he was here). The inspector says he will need to return after the range is installed for a final inspection. I tell him that the company that pulled the permit is not hooking it up and he answers it doesn’t matter who hooks it up he won’t close the permit or allow the new branch to be connected. This all seems so inefficient and contradictory to what I was initially told regarding the inspection. I was told when I signed the contract that they would install a line get it inspected and I could hook it up myself, or another company could pull a permit and hook it up. This was not the case, the inspector said he needed to see a range before any permit would be closed.
So while awaiting delivery the system is still on test very slowly (1.5 psi) losing pressure despite having passed rough inspection and I am a bit concerned. When I contact the company they tell me it’s probably a leaking gauge since you can’t spray that. I ask why they don’t try another gauge and am told it will be fine and I will smell gas if there is a leak. I ask about bringing their ultrasonic leak detector in but am told the bubbles would have found a leak if it was present. So for my own piece of mind i decided to go down and spray everything down....and sure enough I found a small leak at a 90 degree elbow. I called the plumbing company and they are sending someone to to tighten that fitting and take it off test for the installation of the range tomorrow.
I do not know what is going to happen with final inspection but up to this point I couldn’t be more frustrated. I don’t know who is right concerning what code says regarding the valve location, I had to find my own leak, and the people I am paying a lot of money to seem fed up with the whole thing because they don’t like the inspector, and have had to come back so many times. I feel like I need to do something to report this whether to senior management or someone else. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks
When our range died about a month ago my wife and I decided we would replace our all electrical range with a slide in dual fuel gas range w/electric oven. This meant that a new branch would need to be added to the low pressure gasline that currently fed our 3 furnaces and a water heater. I knew that calculating the available overhead would be necessary to see if it could be done without changing the meter/manifold. I used some literature I found online and did the calculations for myself and figured it should be possible. I briefly considered found the work myself, it was after all a simple run off the main pipe with only one 90’degree turn, about 20 feet of total pipe. I have never done any natural gas plumbing other than hooking up a stove for some neighbors once, and hooking up kilns in a ceramics studio. I have however run lines for compressed air both black pipe and copper and have a fair bit of other plumbing. I have a strong understanding of the concepts and practices involved, am mechanically inclined, and meticulous when I do things. Despite this I decided to hire out.
One of the companies I called offered to send someone to do a free estimate. Guy arrives, seems very thorough and knowledgeable, redoes calculations, confirms my conclusion, and proceeds to give me two estimates. One for running the line which was pretty expensive (well <$1000) and one to install the line and hook up the stove (well <$1000+$200). They would handle all permits and inspections. Although it was more than I had anticipated and more than competing “guess” estimates (not paying to send someone out) they won my business because they sent someone out who took measurements and I knew I could trust the estimate. We purchase the range from Costco so they send plumbers out to connect the stove for free so we went with the first option. It seemed a little nickel and dime or nickel and $200 to me to charge extra to attach a stove regardless. When the installers arrived they put in the line, put it on test, I waited for the inspection two days later. I was a bit disconcerted when the test pressure (30 psi) began to drop about a 1.5psi per day. The inspector, arrived found a fitting without tapered threads informed me that this was not allowed and failed the inspection. He also noted some other things that might not be against code but were against his best practices. The plumber put the system on test against a single closed valve but already tied into the main line. He said they needed to remove it and cap it. He also didn’t like that valve was placed inside a cabinet, and said the flex line would not be allowed to go through the cabinet. It would have to be a piece of hard pipe. He asked why we didn’t just put it behind the oven (which ironically would have been my preference). I told him that was what I requested but was told that it was now illegal in NC to install a valve behind the range; it had to be in the cabinet. He said that was not the case and repeated that if we did it this way we need to add a piece of hard pipe (no flex through wall or cabinet). The plumber initially says the inspector is crazy and that we will call and go over his head regarding the valve and flex placement, but when he comes to change out the not permitted fitting he adds a piece of pipe requested by the inspector and puts it back on test. I mention my concern regarding the leak and he leak checks with bubble solution again to appease me before leaving. Again the system fails to hold pressure over the weekend and is 5psi lower when the inspector comes back on Monday to review the changes. Here is the thing, despite this the install passed “rough inspection ” (needle didn’t seem to move for 15 minutes he was here). The inspector says he will need to return after the range is installed for a final inspection. I tell him that the company that pulled the permit is not hooking it up and he answers it doesn’t matter who hooks it up he won’t close the permit or allow the new branch to be connected. This all seems so inefficient and contradictory to what I was initially told regarding the inspection. I was told when I signed the contract that they would install a line get it inspected and I could hook it up myself, or another company could pull a permit and hook it up. This was not the case, the inspector said he needed to see a range before any permit would be closed.
So while awaiting delivery the system is still on test very slowly (1.5 psi) losing pressure despite having passed rough inspection and I am a bit concerned. When I contact the company they tell me it’s probably a leaking gauge since you can’t spray that. I ask why they don’t try another gauge and am told it will be fine and I will smell gas if there is a leak. I ask about bringing their ultrasonic leak detector in but am told the bubbles would have found a leak if it was present. So for my own piece of mind i decided to go down and spray everything down....and sure enough I found a small leak at a 90 degree elbow. I called the plumbing company and they are sending someone to to tighten that fitting and take it off test for the installation of the range tomorrow.
I do not know what is going to happen with final inspection but up to this point I couldn’t be more frustrated. I don’t know who is right concerning what code says regarding the valve location, I had to find my own leak, and the people I am paying a lot of money to seem fed up with the whole thing because they don’t like the inspector, and have had to come back so many times. I feel like I need to do something to report this whether to senior management or someone else. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks
