My water softner is not using Salt anymore

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by PDHO, May 12, 2012.

  1. PDHO

    PDHO New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Michigan
    My Rainsoft system was purchased in 2001 and have had little to no problems until recently. My water is no longer soft and I am not using salt. My problem is I am not sure of the sequence of the system. It appears at no time is there water in the Brine tank ( which I feel happens during #1 stage). During one sequence it is trying to suck the water out of the brine tank as I have removed the line and have had a positive suction ( I have pulled the entire "float system" and air passes through it so it is not clogged). I have disassembled most of the unit head and have clean up the gaskets and have not seen anything "broken". Can anyone school me on what to look for and how to proceed before I dump $$$ in a service call? Please no Rainsoft bashing as this is not helpful. It appears to me that the entire regeneration process is fine with the exception of the "fill" process into the brine tank any positive input would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Pete
  2. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    It sounds to me that the drain flow control may be stopped up. The flow control is located where the drain line connects to the valve. Unscrew the piece that the drain line connects to and look in there. A pic would help to determine where the problem is.
  3. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,857
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Please attach a picture, Raisoft sells many models and they all have their different service needs.

    I doubt anyone here, with the exception of one person would bash the Rainsoft systems, they are actually one of the best units made. Some of them do have proprietary parts but considering the sysem has lasted over a decade without a problem, you are doing fine.
  4. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    If as has been suggested, the drain line flow control was blocked I don't think you'd get good suction in the brine/slow rinse cycle position so... Something in or on the control valve must be blocking the water flow into the salt tank, since the float etc. flows fine.

    Do you have the old brass valve or the newer black plastic one? If the black plastic, does the brine line to/from the salt tank attach to the right side of the control valve as you look at it?

    As to bashing Rain Soft... I've come down on them numerous times for their serious overcharging for their softener and an RO. They are worse than Kinetico!

    RS historically has always charged much more than anyone else. About two years ago was the last I heard from someone that was thinking of buying from them and the price was over $7000 for a softener and an RO including them installing them. They included a 5 year supply of laundry and dish detergents and hand soap, shampoo etc. etc. that any dealer used to be able to buy wholesale for something like $300 + freight.

    Their control valves are usually made by Fleck or some other manufacturer to their specks which makes them somewhat proprietary but no better quality than a normal Autotrol, Clack or Fleck valve.

    The resin/mineral tanks they use used to be abnormal as to the threaded part of the valve and the tank so you couldn't swap control valves without a new tank or a tank without a new valve but then someone started making adapters to solve the problem. I don't think they use that type threads and OD/ID anymore.

    The tanks they use are the same as everyone else uses, the same for resin. IIRC they have a lifetime warranty on their resin and say it is the world's best and only they have it... of course they can do that lifetime thing because of hugely overcharging for their equipment, parts and service calls. They actually (used to, not sure today) put second mortgages on peoples' houses to secure the price of their equipment.

    Although it's been awhile, they've also been exposed with hidden cameras on 60 Minutes, Dateline etc. a few times for misrepresenting 'facts'. So IMO they deserved some bashing.
  5. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,224
    Location:
    Maine
    By all means. bash away. It's what everyone has come to expect from you and is the mark of a true professional LOL
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    OH NO!! Now you consider me a "Professional"!! Somehow I'm not buying it.

    Didya know that Rain Soft is responsibile for me getting into water treatment? It's true. Two RS sales guys got a mentally challenged insurance customer of mine to forge his wive's signature on financing company paperwork for a softener and RO including installation the next morning at 11 AM. He was 100% disabled due to his condition since he was 16, he was about 40 then. His wife was working her 2nd job when he signed the papers. She was somewhat challenged too but not disabled by it. She called me the next morning and I got the contracts canceled and looked into water treatment dealers and ended up becoming a dealer with a passion to do things right based on what consumers wanted. That was in 1987 and I think consumers still today want the same thing.

    So I'm seriously thinking of getting that new Fleck 5800 valve (2 national sales managers from 2 different suppliers called me last week ya see) and maybe the Clack WS-1 too and opening a dealership somewhere around Perry, Ocalla or just east of Tampa FL. And the wife is all for it so it very probably will happen as long as I allow, or excuse me, have her, do the internal color scheme. Might sell a few well pumps too. Might sell'er on a new Pull-A-Pump and doing some pump replacements; the fresh Fl salty air and sunshine ya know? Supposed to be leaving east TX here tomorrow or Monday on the way there.

    I'll be a REAL "Professional" then man. Hell I might even get me a license.

    Hey, did I ever tell you about my flying days back when I had a pilot's license? I don't call myself a pilot though like you still call yourself a Master Plumber after retiring years ago and having your brother take over daddies plumbing business while you attempted to teach high schrool kids plumbing in tech school, but I had a license and flew for a bit.
  7. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,224
    Location:
    Maine
    You don't have the new Fleck 5800 yet? Shame, I do LOL

    I still have my pilots license and my plane too, 1939 Stinson HW75, It originally had a 65hp continental in it but I had the empanage modified and stuck a Lycoming 125 under the cowel. That old 65 was one underpowered engine. Used to take the better part of an hour to climb to 10,000 feet with the darn thing. The Lycoming breathed new life into the old girl though. one of only 5 known left in the world. I'm toying with updating the instrumentation though its a tough decision because the original panel is a work of art. I hate the thought of cobbing it up. Registered under the old numbers NC22506, it's in the middle of getting new fabric as we speak. I went with Ceconite this time around and finally gave in and am going to let them paint it with the latex stuff. So, no, I have not retired, will not retired and hate the thought of ever retiring. My attempts at teaching high schools kids plumbing has taken us to the Skills nationals 3 times in the 5 years I have been teaching and this year my "kids" took bronze, silver and gold at the state competitions so I would say that my attempts thus far have been pretty successful.

    Now it's your turn at the urinal.......
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
  8. F6Hawk

    F6Hawk New Member

    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Alaska
    Pete, just a DIYer here, not as smart as the pros who have already commented, but have you tried removing the brine line from the brine tank, sticking it in a jar of water, and seeing if it draws water during brine draw cycle of a regen? Air can sometimes flow where water cannot.
    Last edited: May 12, 2012
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