Making a sleeve for basement closet bend before cementing???

[Geo]

I have my pipes all ready to cement into the floor.

My closet bend is a 4 inch pipe that is flush with the floor.

The flange will go on the outside of the 4 inch pipe and sit on the cement.

When I cement in the hole how do I keep the cement away from the pipe so after it drys I can still install the flange. I need about 1/4 to 1/2 inch around the 4 inch pipe.

If I put a piece of pipe over it (like a fitting) won't the cement stop me from pulling it out after it drys?

Anyone had to do this and have an easy solution?

Thanks for any help!!

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

You can either use a thin foam and wrap it a few times, do one revolution of duct tape around the center of the foam.
The fitting idea would work but you'll never get a glue/cleaner dauber in that small of a space.

In new construction we'd "try" to use cardboard and almost always never got a good round distance around the pipe.

A coffee can or butter bowl would suffice as well.

I usually set the flange by using a straight board or straight edge from two existing slabs of concrete set my height of flange, glue the flange, set stainless steel screws *long ones* and pour 5000psi fast-set concrete.

I jiggle those screws initially so the wet concrete conforms to those screws....hardens and there's no way those screws are moving; flange is secure to the floor. I've tried the way above and you have to pour waterplug or hydraulic cement pushed into the slots so you've got something decent to anchor the flange. There is a very small margin of error to pull from between outside hub of flange and those screw holes. You can't "not" screw it because you can easily pull that fitting and pipe leading to it through the floor.

They make a flush-fit 4 by 4 closet flange that works off the interior of the pipe......that will save all of the above.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

If you are going to put something on that concrete like tile, the flange should be on top of it, not buried. With a 4" pipe, it might be easiest to leave the piece long, do the finished floor, then cut it off and install an internal flange on top of the finished flooring...much neater, and less hassle. An internal flange on a 4" pipe is still bigger than an external one on a 3" pipe. The internal trapways of nearly any toilet is only just over 2", with maybe 3" as the largest, so there is no constriction there.

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

RUGGED's right, I prefer wrapping stubs in foam for spacing...also on permanent stubs it works excellent to prevent crushing from expansion/contraction.

 

[Geo]

Thanks to all three! I have an inside flange too that I might use. It would be easier.

I really appreciate your help!!

 

[Gary Swart]

Since your concrete will be poured and set before the flange is installed, you can anchor the flange to the concrete by drilling a 5/16" hole then inserting lead ferrels. Then use #12 stainless steel screws into the ferrels. You will need a small hammer drill to make the holes, but this will anchor your flange extremely well yet it will be easy to remove the screw in the future if need be.

 

[Kordts]

I always cut my closet risers to be flush with slab, or an 1/8" under. The finisher then makes a nice flat floor and there is no need to shim the toilet. If a 3" riser is used, I install a styrofoam closet cap over the pipe. If 4" is used, I don't insulate it, but use a spigot collar.

 

[hj]

flange

They make corrugated cardboard sleeves for that purpose. I always use the external flange for the original installation. I use the internal flange as a backup if the external one fails.

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

I always cut my closet risers to be flush with slab, or an 1/8" under. The finisher then makes a nice flat floor and there is no need to shim the toilet. If a 3" riser is used, I install a styrofoam closet cap over the pipe. If 4" is used, I don't insulate it, but use a spigot collar.

Doncha just hate goin' back to someone elses work and having to break out the ID cutter?

 

[Kordts]

I'm witcha Grumpy. I'll never forget the time as a green as grass first year, I had to break off the c.i. baldie after we lead and oakumed the flanges on. Off course I broke a flange after my partner expressly told me not to. Or the time a green as grass first year didn't stick a rag down the riser and the inside cutter went down the 2' wet vent and disappeared. He had to bust a lot of concrete that time.

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

I'm witcha Grumpy. I'll never forget the time as a green as grass first year, I had to break off the c.i. baldie after we lead and oakumed the flanges on. Off course I broke a flange after my partner expressly told me not to. Or the time a green as grass first year didn't stick a rag down the riser and the inside cutter went down the 2' wet vent and disappeared. He had to bust a lot of concrete that time.

Third year apprentice was allowed to work on his own doing an underground...no wraps on the stubs through the foundation, 2 days of frustration for the crew trying to find why it wouldn't hold water... one had cracked inside the slab and was gushing below.

After a full day of snaking drains, camera goes into the main to discover a huge wad of lead piled at a seam near the sewer connection...apparently one of the boys didn't know what oakum was.