Kinetico Model 60 recharging more often and using more salt than it used to

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syc0path

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It's about 15yrs old. I would say that it's been about 12-18 months since it started doing this. I took the timer apart and inspected the parts inside. The teeth on the discs look fine, but 1 of the pawls looks like it might be worn. There was a small amount of debris inside the control head where the timer sits, but I don't think it was enough to have any effect on recharging. The unit uses a #4 control disc.

The water is soft and tastes fine. We never run out of soft water either. There is a rust filter on in the pipe going into the softener and a charcoal filter on the pipe coming out, and I change them every few months.

It could just be that we've been using more water, but I don't have a good way to test this. Probably the best indication is that we're on a well, and I would expect to see a corresponding jump in electricity use if we really are just using more water. But my electrical bill has been pretty consistent.

Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions?
 

Gary Slusser

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Looking at an electric bill isn't going to see much increase due to a well pump running an extra few times a day unless it is running constantly. A water leak somewhere is going to cause the problem you describe and a few extra pump runs. It could be a toilet flapper valve or overflow in a toilet tank, an outdoor hose end sprayer, a leak under a slab etc..
 

syc0path

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I forgot to mention that I checked the toilets for leaks. This is a single-story house on a partially-finished basement, so any leaks large enough to account for these symptoms would have shown themselves long ago. There is only 1 outdoor spigot, and it's not leaking.

As for the electric bill, I know it's not the ideal measure, but I also know from past experience that running a lot of it will have a noticeable impact on the electrical bill. Water is heavy and the well is deep. We also have an electric grinder pump that connects to the city sewer, so it takes electricity to bring the water up and to drain it away. When comparing the significantly increased frequency of recharging vs the little-to-no increase in the electrical bill, it just doesn't seem to make sense that we're using more water.

Really, a water meter would be the best way to tell for sure, but I've never dealt w/ those before. Are they expensive or difficult to install?
 

Mialynette2003

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A very easy and no cost way to tell if water is running thought the system is to turn off the water for abour 5 min. Do not turn opn any faucet during that time. When you turn the water back on, you should not hear any water moving. If you hear water flow, there is a leak somewhere.
 

Reach4

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Really, a water meter would be the best way to tell for sure, but I've never dealt w/ those before. Are they expensive or difficult to install?
I looked around. There are many in the used market.

http://www.controlswarehouse.com/water.htm has info for making connections: those water meters do not have regular threads, so they need a coupler.

I wonder if you could solder copper pipe to one of these old meters to adapt it.
 

Gary Slusser

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......... As for the electric bill, I know it's not the ideal measure, but I also know from past experience that running a lot of it will have a noticeable impact on the electrical bill. Water is heavy and the well is deep.

We also have an electric grinder pump that connects to the city sewer, so it takes electricity to bring the water up and to drain it away. When comparing the significantly increased frequency of recharging vs the little-to-no increase in the electrical bill, it just doesn't seem to make sense that we're using more water.

Really, a water meter would be the best way to tell for sure, but I've never dealt w/ those before. Are they expensive or difficult to install?
The well pump only has to move water from the (static or dynamic) water level in the well, not from the depth of the pump unless the dynamic water level falls to the pump inlet depth.

Since you are getting more frequent regenerations, and the control valve regenerates based on gallons run through it, and you have no water leaks, then there has to be a problem with your softener's meter. OR... you are using more water through the softener than you have been. Or... maybe there is water going from the softener to drain and you don't know it. But I'm not sure that would cause more regenerations although it might if parts were worn some.

Finding a toilet flapper valve leak usually requires shutting the water off to the toilet for like a few hours watching for the level in the bowl to fall. A leaking fill valve in the toilet tank usually requires adding food coloring to the tank water and over hours seeing if it shows up in the bowl water. Someone may be using more water and not owning up to it... not really aware they are using much more.

Or maybe there is something wrong with your electric meter.... lol
IIRC, grinder pumps grind up solids and then push water, not suck it.
 

syc0path

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Well apparently cleaning the timer has fixed the problem. It's been about 2 weeks since I did that and since then the softener is back to a normal regen cycle.

I'm not exactly sure why cleaning the timer had that effect. I have some theories, but none of them are very good. Some of the debris I cleaned out had a slimy texture, so maybe that was allowing the timer to turn faster. Maybe the debris was interfering w/ the pawls meshing w/ the gear teeth. Or maybe the debris on the teeth created more drag on the timer wheel, causing it to turn more per gallon of water than it should have.

In any event, it was a simple (and free!) fix. I should also mention that I took pix w/ my phone as I took the timer apart, and that was helpful when I was putting the pawls back in, to make sure I reinstalled them correctly.
 
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