its horton about ge or whirpool

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by rihorton, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. rihorton

    rihorton New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    north carolina
    apologize for having to repost with different user name, but tried and tried to log on, even created a new account a couple of times in order to try and respond to post about my question about ge or whirlpool that you buy at lowes.
    Here is my water test result from feb of 2010, right after this, i shocked the well with a product called well safe, and behold everything cleared up until about 2 months ago, now the red is back, i plan on getting my water tested again, but here was the first results, actually saw a water test at lowes, is that as good as dropping it off at the local plumbing supply house
    ph - 6.46, hardness - 1.59 GPG(grains per gallon), Iron (fe) - .28 Fe, i called whirpool and was told that i had soft water all ready but they recommended the whirpool WHES30, i was looking at the WHES40, but was told it would be too big due to results of my water test. I then called the local plumbing house where i had the original test done and was told that they recommended a Macclean CWS100ME, but they also told me i may need a seperate iron filter, all of this came to about 2000 dollars, whirlpool told me that if i used the salt pellets designed for iron water that i would not need a seperate iron filter due to the results. the whirlpool folks did suggest that i get my water tested again, because the result paper that i got did not look right since i have red staining in my toilet bowls, i have purchased a extra large ge whole house filter that i am going to use to replace the small standard filter that i have and hoping that it may work very well, the reason i have the red stains is because we normally changed the cheap standard filter every saturday, but i had to work in honduras for a couple of months and wife did not change the filter, and when i came home never thought about it, actually thinking about shocking the well again and this time do it more like the instructions say, last time, my neighbor who is a plumber (but has now passed away in the last few months) kept telling me i was wasting my time, that i needed a system like he had, that cost around 2500, well after i was done, couple of weeks later ran a glass of water, showed it to him and he was actually amazed at how the red was gone and the back of the toilet bowls where crystal white after i cleaned out the brown sand like residue, which is what i read would happen to iron bacteria after you shock it with chlorine, what are the professional thoughts on this, trying to learn more now that i have to do most of my own plumbing. thanks for any input or advice
  2. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,494
    Location:
    Alaska
    So the iron is below the .3 or stain level...
    Hardness is not really there..

    So why is it really that you are looking for a softener?
  3. rihorton

    rihorton New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    north carolina
    have red stains

    not sure if i really need one, going to have my water tested again, for some reason i am not sure that the plumbing company that i went to did not get my test sample confused with a couple of others. I have a whole house cartridge filter that gets clogged up only after about a week or two, depending upon how many loads of clothes my wife washes that week. The filter is red. At the moment, i think i may have iron bacteria because back around may of 2010 i did the shock treatment with a product called safe well, and it cleared my water up until about a couple of months ago. The water was pretty clear and the red stains in the back of the toilets turned into a sand like brown mixture in the bottom of the bowl, which is what i was reading on the forums would happen to iron bacteria if it is shocked. I saw a water test kit at lowes and going to go by this weekend and take a look and see if test for iron bacteria. I am going to look at putting a GE Large Size Whole house water filter on that i picked up at home depot to replace the standard size unit that i now have. The reason i was looking at the softner is because when i was lowes getting some filter i saw the whirlpool units and they said they could filter 10 ppm of iron, i called them and they said that it did it by doing a extra back flush, and if you use the salt that is designed for iron that i also saw at lowes and home depot that it should clear up the iron that i have, just not sure if it will do anything for iron bacteria. I have seen these units by searching the net that inject chlorine down your well a little at a time, but do not know much about them. Thanks for advice and assistance.
  4. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    741
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    Check into a BIRM filter. It stands for Best Iron Removal Media. It does not use a regenerante. You set it to backwash every couple of days.
  5. JKERN

    JKERN New Member

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Artesia NM
    Before you get any filter i would suggest getting another sample taken of your water by your local water proffesional or an independant lab or you can contact your local university and they might do it for you. What you are saying your test results are and what you are experiencing are different enough to be suspicious about the original test results. If you have staining yes you probably need filtration of some kind but if you have iron bacteria the most effective method of treatment should be determined after a full water makeup. Mind you a little cost upfront can save you a whole lot down the road.
  6. rihorton

    rihorton New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    north carolina
    Thanks, i agree, does anyone know of a good way to know if the red is iron, iron bacteria, or sediment, i know the dirt around here is mostly a red clay type work and all of my problems started about 10 years ago when a larger central storage tank was put in for a development up the road from where i live, and it does appear to be more of a issue at times. Also, what about the water test kits you get at lowes? Only seen them, not really read anything on them. I do plan on changing out the small filter with the larger whole house ge filter until i can get everythig tested again, but do not think i will go back to the plumbing supply house.
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You can't use year old test results. I'd use the supply house for new tests but wouldn't buy any water treatment from them based on what they proposed.

    IRB causes a clear to black slime in toilet tanks at and below the water line.

    You shouldn't be using a disposable cartridge filter ahead of the softener. It won't remove ferrous soluble clear water iron anyway, just rust particles if any and then it starves the softener for backwash water. So remove the cartridge and let the housing collect particles.
  8. rihorton

    rihorton New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    north carolina
    Thanks
    I do not have a clear black line, I plan on trying to install the large ge whole house filter that uses the larger filters until i can get my water tested and hope it will help clear up the water a little better or least not have to be changed so often. I will be working out of town for the next couple of months and the wife does not deal with the changing of the filter. Gary, would the water test kits that they sell at lowes be a good way to retest the water. here is the results that i had in feb of 2010, before i shocked the well and everything cleared up and the back of the toilets and inside the toilets stayed white as long as i changed the filter every week, but went at least 4-6 weeks before it got changed because i had to work in el salvador.
    PH - 6.46, TDS-52.8, turbidity - 1.0, hardness - 1.59, iron(fe) - .28, maganese <.05, copper - .06, sodium - 6.09, tannin <0.10, alkalinity - 40.
    The comments at the bottom where - Equipment Recommendation - Aqua pure backwashing filter CBF100 w/ media N-10p
    Then it says - whenever ph is increased by means of a filter, hardness will also increase, a softner should be installed after the filter, especially if the home utilizes a tankless water heater.
    Also, what is the correct way to take a sample of your water, is it to go at the tank that i have under my house and open the faucet and pour it in a plastic bottle and then seal the bottle? Also, since when i shocked the well it cleared up the red in the water for a few months would that suggest that i have iron bacteria? To be honest, really confused and not exactly sure which direction to take, every plumber i talk to around the house tells me a different thing, one suggest a filter, then softner, and not really knowing, doing a lot of reading on here and your web site to try and make the correct choice. Thanks to everyone for advice.
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Not a clear black line, look and feel for slime that can be clear to black in color at and below the water line in your toilet tanks.

    The home test kits are not that good for first time testing, use the plumbing supply house; it's accurate testing and inexpensive.

    Yes use the drain on the pressure tank after running some water out of it, and fill the bottle so there is no air in it.

    Sad to say that most plumbers do not know much about water treatment; use a water treatment dealer, preferably an independent dealer instead of a national or regional brand type.
  10. rihorton

    rihorton New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    north carolina
    Thanks for advice, i am going to get my water retested as you suggested. What i have a hard time telling about the red residue in the bottom of my toilets, or the red something that clogs up the in line whole house filter after a few weeks, is what it really is. I changed the filter in it last night with one of the regular white cartridge filters and when i take the old one out it is red and if you pick it up or touch it, it gets on your hands, and i am not sure if it is iron or if it is mud. I do know that most of the dirt around here if you dig down below the top soil is a red clay type, could it be that is what is causing my red in the water and clogging up the filter. If i have another test and it comes back with a trace of iron, but still have filters that will clog up and be red when you take them out, how do you know what it is? Sure wish you was close to winston salem nc.
  11. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,158
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I'm not challenging the water treatment experts, just adding my experience and what I've been told. I'm not sure my water quality guy is giving me accurate info. I get a black, coal oil like slime and was told it was manganese but suspect iron and/or sulfur bacteria.
    http://www.gov.ns.ca/nse/water/docs/droponwaterFAQ_IronBacteria.pdf

    When my iron filter isn't working right or when I am cleaning out my softener with Iron Out, I get a distinct odor like one smells with a bloody nose and I'm sure that is the smell of iron.

    My first clue that my water had iron was that while it drew clear from the well, if left in an open pail exposed to air, it would turn reddish as if I mopped up a murder scene. It would also develop an oily like sheen on the surface and smell like sulfur. Pretty disgusting stuff.

    As for softeners being able to treat for iron, I'm of the personal opinion that it is the wrong tool for the job, that the iron tends to muck up the softener bad enough to shorten its life despite the use of iron fighting salt. Iron, IMHO should be trapped before the softener.
  12. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You can take a sample to a lab but it would probably be pricey to have them tell you what it is but, it's probably iron that has been oxidized in the plumbing or well, into ferric iron called rust. And that will reduce the amount of ferrous iron found with an iron test because that test doesn't test for ferric iron which is a particulate.
  13. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,158
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Gary, Is time a factor when sending a sample off to a lab for testing? My local guy just has some sort of drops that turn the water a particular colour. Would drawing water that has gone through the micronizer reduce its shelf life for testing? The nearest city is a 4 or 5 hour drive in either direction.
  14. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    IRB and MRB (manganese reducing ) both cause oily film on water and odor. SRB (sulfur reducing) causes odor mostly but may cause slime too.

    A softener usually does very good in removing ferrous iron. Any type of reducing bacteria must be killed because bacteria prevents a softener or iron filter from working properly. Odor is only caused by bacterial action or chemical presence. Iron fighting salt is not a very good way to clean resin of iron. Mixing Iron Out in a gallon or two of warm water and doing a manual regeneration is the best way but tht shouldn't be done more than once a month and with as little IO as possible; like a 1/4 cup dry measure.

    Yes time is critical for certain water tests. No sample over 30 hrs old for bacteria tests. There should be no air in the bottle for iron, manganese, H2S or pH tests.

    You can't take samples for iron, manganese, H2S or pH testing after an air injection venturi because the oxidation has already been done or has started which would reduce the amounts and thereby cause incorrect data to be used to adjust equipment etc.. Same for a solution feeder feeding any type of disinfectant or oxidizer. You have to use raw/untreated water from before any type of injector/venturi or other water treatment equipment.
  15. rihorton

    rihorton New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    north carolina
    thanks for info, i just finished installing the GE Larger capacity water filter, had to get the more dense filter for it because the water had red tinit that was coming through the paper filter. I also installed a new 40-60 pump switch, so now have great water pressure and water is clear. Here is where i am confused, i ran water into a clear glass yesterday morning, and tonight, that water is still clear, so i am thinking my red tint in my water may just be good old mud, or the fact that the dirt around here if you dig down deep below the top layer is red clay. Myself and the neighbors have the same problem in our water ever since a development was put in about us about 15 years ago with a centra water system and a large storate tank, could it be that we are all on the same main, but i also own the house across the road from me and it is on the water system and it is clear, have to travel out of town tomorrow so will be a couple of weeks before i can send off a water test, but could it just be red clay or mud. Thanks

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