Insane Lead Drain Pipe

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Hillel, Oct 8, 2007.

  1. Hillel

    Hillel New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Hello,

    I am in the process of replacing the flange for the second floor toilet in my house. The toilet was originally seated by the closet bolts embedded in the concrete layer that holds the tile for the floor. A copper flange was then placed over the bolts, and the pipe coming out of the floor is a lead pipe section that was then flared over the flange. The flange had bowed out, causing the toilet to tip and the seal to leak.

    I cut off the flare on the pipe and removed the old flange, which was pretty much disintegrated anyway. The original bolts were completely rusted out. I am trying to seat in an Oatey PVC adjustable replacement flange with the three bolts that pull in the gasket. The problem is that the lead drain pipe was formed into the oddest shape both narrowing and shifting to the side. As a result, one side moves away from the replacement flange such that I do not think it is making a good seal even with the gasket fully pushed out. Can I put some kind of sealant in there, or is there another solution for replacing a flange in this situation?

    Thanks.
    ---Hillel
  2. cwhyu2

    cwhyu2 Consultant

    Messages:
    1,331
    Location:
    Cincinnati OH
    lead bend

    The only way I would do this is to solder a deep brass flange to the
    existing lead bend.You need someone that has done this before.
  3. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I took a 4" cast iron insert flange and pulled the lead up to the floor level and widened it gently and with loads of silicone caulk put it in place. It's worked fine now for 2+ years. Ya know, it would have been nice to maybe get a clamp on the lead or something from below when I had the ceiling open but I didn't. Worked for me though.
  4. Hillel

    Hillel New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Has it survived a sewer backup?
  5. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I considered that when I installed it. It's on the second floor and when the line to the street backs up, it backs up on the basement floor (floor drain). After that, it would end up in the kitchen sink. After that it would end up in the shower. Then the toilet. So, unless the vertical stack clogs below the toilet, or all other fixtures are backed up I think I'll be ok--I doubt that would happen.

    I had a good oppurtunity to fix it from below when I did the kitchen remodel, but I didn't.... should have though. *sigh* Working fine though.

    Jason
  6. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    Remove lead and Install anything but lead and be forever happy.
  7. Hillel

    Hillel New Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    In a perfect world

    Yes, if the floor or the ceiling below were open, or if I was doing full room remodel, that would definitely be the plan. As it was, I just needed to fix the toilet. The seal below the toilet was finally starting to leak as the toilet was rocking from the bent flange just as the toilet in another bathroom of the house was being fixed. (See the other thread about replacing toilet on floor to be raised.) I am not about to rip up the floor or tear open the ceiling below.

    In conclusion, the lead bend did not seem to have enough at the top for welding a brass flange, so I followed Lakee911's advice about the CI insert and silicone. The way I figure it, if the standard repair flange depends on a rubber gasket for a seal, and that is not really bonded to the metal on either side, then a deep collar of good quality silicone that actually sticks to the metal should for sure be good enough. So far, so good.

    BTW, just as I was tightening down the toilet, the GFCI outlet in the third bathroom of the house internally shorted taking out the fuse with it. Replacing that was a nightmare as the circuit refused to work after replacing the GFCI, and I had to trace looking for further shorts back in the wiring. I think there is some contagious disease passing from one bathroom to another in this house. :(

    Thanks for all the help.
    ---Hillel
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