I just do not understand police in America

Discussion in 'Ian's Corner' started by Ian Gills, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,780
    Location:
    USA
    In England, it's easy. There is the police, they drive cars, and they can arrest you.

    In America, it's a lot more tricky. There's State Troopers, county police, town police, metro police, park police, the sheriff, the FBI, the CIA and a whole lot more. And they all drive cars with flashing lights on top.

    So who does what, and what can they do to me?

    Put another way, if I drive by one of these guys in a car and give them the Bird which ones can chase me and arrest me?

    A State Trooper?

    A State Trooper who happens to be out of State?

    A County Sheriff?

    The Park Police?

    I just don't get it. Which ones could someone Bird and where?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
  2. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    There is kindergarden police, university police, shopping center police, etc.

    Being a free country, you can flip a bird to any officer if you feel like it. Not against the law. But if for any reason, they tell you to pull over and show ID, just freaking do it! Cooperate with the police, and you will never go wrong. There are tons of people sitting in the county hoosegow because they thought is was ok to scuffle, or refuse to ID themselves, etc. "checking people out" is how cops find bad guys. If you are not a bad guy, just suck up your pride and you will be on your way!

    Don't go to places where bad things happen, and bad things won't happen to you! ( I have been down some dark alleys in Olongapo and Pattya Beach. That doesn't count!)

    I am 65 and have never been rousted by the cops for any reason. I don't act up in public, don't go out after dark, etc! Remember, nothing good ever happens after midnight!
  3. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Location:
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    So any of these can ID me, anywhere?

    [​IMG]

    I thought they were a lot nicer here.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
  4. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    City of London police, Metropolitan police force, British transport Police; various Parks in the city have their own constabularies... then there's MI5 & MI6.



    I'm sorry, what was the question again?
  5. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
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    Location:
    USA
    I was just wondering whether there were any differences. There are just so many types here all doing similar things...driving around. Different uniforms, different cars. Different hair cuts (state troopers all have the same one). It really is quite strange.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
  6. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    Dude, this is America. They can ask you to identity yourself. But without reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed or about to be committed, they can't demand it.
  7. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
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    Location:
    USA
    Ah, I see.

    Does that mean (and I am being serious) that you need to carry an ID, like a driving license, at all times, even if not driving?

    Or will a spoken name and address suffice, should an officer ask?
  8. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    This isn't Europe - there's no law that says you have to carry ID.

    Spoken name & number & such is fine. They'll run it through the computer, maybe ask you a couple of questions to prove you're who you say you are (what's your address, what's your birthday, something like that).

    Note that I'm just talking about, walking down the street, here. You want to go into a bar, you need ID. You want to go into any Federal Building, you need ID. You want to go into some doorman buildings in NYC, you need to show picture ID. And so on.
  9. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
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    Location:
    USA
    Seems fair enough. But in England you do not need to have a driving licence on your person to drive.

    I have yet to have an encounter with the police here. Not even a speeding ticket in four years, hence all the questions.

    That's because I was required to be taught to drive.

    With an instructor for ten weeks.

    I enjoyed my driving test here though. A drive round the block in a hire car. Freedom...to damage someone and yourself.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
  10. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    South of Boston, MA
    I've had some run-ins in my younger days
    Went to Court after out running a Mustang 5.0...that was a cop
    Speeds in excess of 100mph
    They read it off exactly as it had happened
    The officer never turned his lights on (hidden in grille) until the end ( I was doing 55)
    At which point I pulled over
    The judge threw it out...since up to that point he could have been some nut

    I imagine if you are driving & refuse to show ID you then have a problem
  11. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,780
    Location:
    USA
    Scuba Dave is da dude. Man!


    You can just make out the Police Mustang in the distance.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2009
  12. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    South of Boston, MA
    So you saw my '66 Mustang :D

    Actually I outran them on my MC

    [​IMG]
  13. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

    Messages:
    1,460
    Location:
    MD
    I have heard that the color of the signs and backgrounds you see along the road determines what legal people have jurisdiction in what area.

    I have also heard of two cops who followed a "foreign-looking" young adult [who happened to be a law student] in his car. He got out of his car and was walking when the first cop demanded ID.
    The student said, "Your choice is to arrest me now or leave me alone."
    The second cop told the first one to "Let it go" and both cops left.
    Kinda' makes ya' wonder. . .
  14. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Cops can hold you for 48 Hrs. if you don't provide them your name....but at the end of 48 hrs. they have to charge you with something or release yopu...
  15. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    That depends on the State.
  16. sjsmithjr

    sjsmithjr Geologist

    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    I have to agree with Jimbo. During my younger days I once rode my motorcycle out the front door of a bar where a buddy of mine worked, a couple of blocks from where I was living. It was a 1969 BSA Rocket 3, and I had parked it inside because it was a beast start cold in the winter. A city cop in a patrol car seemed to think this was all a bit unusual and hit the lights. I was stone cold sober and figured I'd go ahead and head for the house figuring to plead ignorance and have the bike in the driveway. The officer was less than amused by my failure to pull over immediately and I freely admit to being a smarta$$ as he administered the field sobriety the test. I nailed the backwards ABC's and did a pirouette after successfully turning 360 with my eyes closed and arms out. He looked at me and said something to the effect of "son, I can't charge you with DUI but PD (public drunkenness) is at my discretion." I got to: spend the remainder of the night in the drunk tank, have a soggy p-nut butter sandwich for breakfast, and pay a fine. I've never been anything short of courteous to law enforcement since. :D
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2009
  17. Cookie

    Cookie .

    Messages:
    5,660
    Location:
    .
    Cops need to be better educated, a cop without a college education is a dangerous thing. They usually lack compassion, empathy, respect for anything or anyone, intelliegence and self-control.


    9 mins ago

    SAN JOSE, Calif. – A cell phone video that shows police officers repeatedly hitting an unarmed university student with batons and a Taser gun has prompted a criminal investigation into the officers' conduct, a San Jose police spokesman said.

    The video, posted by the San Jose Mercury News on its Web site late Saturday, shows one officer hitting 20-year-old Vietnamese student Phuong Ho with a metal baton more than 10 times, including once on the head. Another officer is seen using his Taser gun on the San Jose State math major.

    The final baton strike in last month's incident appears to take place after handcuffs have been attached to Ho's wrists.

    "It takes me back to the day I saw the Rodney King video on TV," said Roger Clark, a police expert and a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department.

    The last baton strike ought to bring a felony charge, Clark said.

    Officers arrested Ho on suspicion of assaulting one of his roommates. He was not armed when police arrived and he told the newspaper he didn't resist arrest.

    The confrontation began Sept. 3 when Ho's roommate, Jeremy Suftin, put soap on Ho's steak. The two scuffled, and Ho picked up a steak knife, saying that in his home country he would have killed Suftin for doing what he did.

    Police were called, and four officers responded.

    Officer Kenneth Siegel encountered Ho in the hallway, but couldn't understand the student's accent, police reports said. Ho then ignored a police command to stand still, reports said.

    When Ho tried to follow Siegel into his room, officer Steven Payne Jr. moved to handcuff Ho. Payne wrote in his report that he pushed the student into a wall and then forced him to the floor when he resisted being handcuffed.

    Ho, who weighs more than 200 lbs., said his glasses fell off. As he went to pick them up, the officers struck him, he said.

    Another one of Ho's roommates, Dimitri Masouris, captured the events on his cell phone. An officer can be heard on the video shouting, "Turn over!" Ho can be heard moaning and crying as he's struck.

    "In philosophy, they call it 'dehumanization,'" Ho told the Mercury News. "So when they think me a dangerous guy, they don't treat me like I was human. They hit me like an animal or something."

    Masouris said he considered the police response excessive. He sold the tape to San Jose lawyer Duyen Hoang Nguyen, who is representing Ho.

    The Mercury News obtained a copy of the video and showed it to Daniel Katz, San Jose's assistant police chief. The police department is taking the matter very seriously, he said.

    The city's large Vietnamese-American community is already angry over the police shooting of a mentally ill Vietnamese man in May, the newspaper said in an editorial about Ho's beating. The lack of public disclosure in the investigation that followed was also a problem, the paper said.

    Police experts said the grainy, shaky video is difficult to view and may not show actions by Ho that justified the officers' response. Nevertheless, several said the video raises serious concerns.

    "Once he is handcuffed, then he is helpless," said Frank Jordan, a former San Francisco police chief and mayor. "If you can show that his hands are behind his back, and he is handcuffed, that is where you get brutality. That would be excessive force."

    Siegel and Payne didn't respond to written requests for comment sent through department officials and their union.

    ___
  18. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    I don't think higher education gives anyone more respect, self control or compassion. There are definitely bad cops out there, as there are bad people in all trades and professions. I've met cops on both sides of the fence but don't let the bad ones color my views of the good ones.
  19. jeffeverde

    jeffeverde New Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    L.A.

    In a nutshell-

    In general terms, they're all Law Enforcement Officers (aka LEO's)

    -A Police Officer is typically an employee of a City. Local Police enforce City and State ordinances (most (all?) municipal codes have a blanket statement that incorporates all state ordinances into the municipal code).

    -A Sheriff is employed by a County. They patrol unincorporated (not under the jurisdiction of any city) County land. Also, towns too small to justify their own police department will often contract with their local county Sheriff for law enforcement services. The County Sheriff typically provides Bailiffs for county courts, and the correctional officers for county jails. Sheriff's enforce county and state ordinances.

    -State Trooper/State Police/Highway Patrol -- like a Sheriff, but at the state level. A primary duty is enforcement of the state Vehicle Code on state and interstate highways.

    -U.S. Marshall - like a Sheriff, at the federal level

    -FBI - the name kind of says it all - Detectives with nation-wide jurisdiction - enforce Federal law

    -ATF - like the FBI, but limited to Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms issues.

    -CIA - an information gathering organization, by charter, limited to operations outside of the U.S. --- (but...)

    -State Park Police, National Park Rangers, etc, etc, etc - what the name implies

    Cross-jurisdiction authority varies. In some cases, a LEO has zero authority outside of their specific jurisdiction (particularly in regards non-violent crimes). But in many (all?) states, any LEO can at least detain you and call in a local LEO if they observe you in the commission of a crime.
  20. Allen Meyers

    Allen Meyers Previous member

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Monroe, LA
    Don't forget the hunting and fishing police!!!!:D:D
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