I do not understand Social Conservatism in America

Discussion in 'Ian's Corner' started by Ian Gills, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    I get fiscal conservatism. Some people want to pay taxes. A few greedy people do not.

    But social conservatism in America of all places has me baffled.

    What you essentially have, if my understanding is correct, is a group of people that want the rest of us to live by their values.

    And yet this country was founded on freedom.

    Why aren't social conservatives locked up?
  2. BobL43

    BobL43 DIY Senior Member

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    please explain; we elect our government and merely expect them to do what they promised us in their campaigns.

    You are obviously from all your posts, a liberal conservative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_welfare_state
  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Because we have guns and the liberal wackos don't!
  4. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    You have that reversed.

    Social conservatives are not liberal or paticularly whacked, the republican party falling far into the catogory. England has 7 versions and flavors of SC's parties on its own. With many reps in its goofy house of bellowing politicians.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conservatism#United_States_2

    Locking up SC's is Ians troll of English humour, and would put all of Utah in jail and likely a quarter of Englands souls as well. Ian wants us to live by his peculiar set of rules, just a step back from communism, but we have'nt locked him up....YET
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  5. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Then what happened to freedom?

    I don't care if social conservatives practice what they preach at home but they should keep it behind closed doors.

    If the rest of us want to drink on a Sunday or not go to church they should keep out of our freedom.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  6. Gary in NJ

    Gary in NJ New Member

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    The US Constitution is written such that EACH of us has the right to pursue life, liberty and our individual pursuit of happiness. Anyone that attempts to regulate or legislate your happiness is not conservative, social or otherwise.

    Further, NO ONE likes to pay taxes, but they are required to fund a federal government. The problem with our current tax structure and their rates, is that they fund an overreaching government that does implement laws that attempt to regulate behavior and personal liberty.

    European socialism has no place in a free society. Of course if you disagree with this sentiment, you are free to return to your homeland.
  7. BobL43

    BobL43 DIY Senior Member

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    Gary, maybe Ian will listen to you and go home. you sound reasonable.
  8. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Europe is no "less free" than America.

    And some people do like to pay taxes. Warren Buffet for instance, and his secretary.

    Tax soft drinks.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  9. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Tax english tea heavily.
  10. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    You don't know much about the tax law or accounting Ian. Warren gets to write it alllllll offffff...he makes even more money. $
  11. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    I think all this "freedom" stuff and "Government overstepping the mark" is just goobledegook.

    What the Americans that say this really mean, is that they just don't want to pay for poor people.

    And they hide behind a rant of excessive regulation and Government "interfering" in their lives.

    Why don't they just say it as it is?

    That they are unwilling to help poor people through taxes.
  12. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    The Mormons and Amish keep to themselves, and the Mormons were forced to give up multiple wives by our fine church going government, even though all the congressman had mistresses.

    Tax legal prostitutition, and 2nd and third wives. Not enough good men to go around, so the great ones deserve a covey of women, like deer.

    If prostitution was legal, your daughters and sons could walk to school again.
  13. Gary in NJ

    Gary in NJ New Member

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    I am all too happy to help those in need, whether through taxes or charitable funding. I DO take exception to funding the lives of the lazy and the recipient class. Those people do not have a right to the money that I have EARNED.

    That is the very essence of socialism, and all that is wrong with the current tax burden.
  14. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    This is what you need to read Ian. Then, think of "freedoms."

    BEIJING (AP) — In a quiet, leafy neighborhood of Beijing, a woman has been living in enforced isolation in her book-lined, fifth-floor apartment. Her apparent misdeed: being married to a Nobel Peace Prize winner the Chinese government calls a criminal.

    In the year since jailed democracy campaigner Liu Xiaobo was awarded the prize, his wife Liu Xia has also become a prisoner. She has largely been held incommunicado, effectively under house arrest, watched by police, without phone or Internet access and prohibited from seeing all but a few family members.

    "Liu Xia has been completely cut off from communication with the outside world, and leads a lonely and oppressed life," said Beijing activist Zeng Jinyan, the wife of another well-known dissident who has endured bouts of surveillance and harassment. "It has already been a year, I dare not imagine how much longer she must bear this pain."

    The Nobel prize announced last Oct. 8 cheered China's fractured, persecuted dissident community and brought calls from the U.S., Germany and others for Liu's release, but also infuriated Beijing, and authorities harassed and detained dozens of his supporters in the weeks that followed.

    China has a long history of punishing family members of government critics. But the Liu case is different because he's the first to win the Peace Prize and by isolating Liu Xia the government seems intent on preventing the frail-looking 51-year-old poet with close-cropped hair and wire-rimmed glasses from becoming a rallying point for political activists.

    "The Chinese government simply just do not want people to be reminded of the emotional, the human aspect of Liu Xiaobo in jail, and to do that they also want to erase Liu Xia from people's memory," said Wang Songlian, a researcher with China Human Rights Defenders in Hong Kong.

    The harsh treatment of Liu Xia seemingly runs afoul of China's laws and might be the most severe retaliation ever suffered by the family of a Peace Prize laureate.

    "As far as I know, the way she is treated is unprecedented in the history of the Nobel Peace Prize," said Geir Lundestad, secretary of the Norwegian Nobel Committee. "Her situation is extremely regrettable."

    Lundestad said the committee is also worried about Liu Xiaobo because it has not received any new information about his situation since late last year.

    The government did not comment.

    A literary critic and dogged campaigner for peaceful political change, Liu Xiaobo tried to negotiate the retreat of pro-democracy student demonstrators from Tiananmen Square in 1989. He co-authored a manifesto in 2008 calling for an end to single-party rule. Both acts earned him jail terms, the latter an 11-year sentence he is now serving.

    Liu Xiaobo and Liu Xia's friendship began in the early 1980s over a shared love of literature and poetry. Her father, a senior finance official, had set up a cushy job at the national tax bureau for her, but she quit because she wanted more freedom, according to an essay about the couple by dissident writer and friend, Yu Jie.

    They wedded in 1996 while he was in a labor re-education camp in order for Liu Xia to be granted permission to visit him. Yu's essay says she told police: "I just want to marry that 'enemy of the state'!"

    In a tribute to Liu Xia, Liu Xiaobo wrote: "I am serving my sentence in a tangible prison, while you wait in the intangible prison of the heart," as part of a statement he had prepared for his trial in 2009.

    Two days after the Nobel announcement, which brought furious condemnation from Beijing, Liu Xia was allowed to visit him in prison. She carried out a message from him that he dedicated the award to those who died in the 1989 Tiananmen crackdown. Rights groups say she hasn't been allowed to see him since.

    During a rare phone interview with the AP a few days after the award was announced, Liu Xia sounded hopeful her confinement would be brief: "I'm sure that for a moment the pressure will be greater, I will have even less freedom, even more inconvenience, but I believe they won't go on like this forever and that there will be positive change in the future."

    On a recent day, there were no signs of movement in her apartment that could be seen from the ground floor, although a window was open and a light in a small room was switched on at night. Downstairs, residents walked their dogs near a river where Chinese men were swimming and fishing.

    Liu Xiaobo was not allowed to attend the funeral of his father last month and it's not clear that he or Liu Xia know that he died Sept. 12, because his brother could not reach him, said Liu Xiaobo's close friend, Wu Wei. Wu said he was informed by Liu Xiaoxuan, Liu Xiaobo's younger brother, who told the AP he was not allowed to accept foreign media interviews.

    "He said there was no channel, no way to inform Xiaobo and Liu Xia, so that means that they do not necessarily know the news," Wu said in a phone interview.

    Despite being more beleaguered since the Nobel prize, many of China's dissidents say they cherish the recognition.

    "Awarding Liu Xiaobo the prize had the overall effect of helping to energize China's civil opposition and rights defense movement," said Wu, the writer. "Just like South Africa had their Mandela and Myanmar had their Aung San Suu Kyi, we now have Liu Xiaobo."
  15. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

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    When our constitution was written there wasn't a couple billion people in the world all vying for their own particular brand of freedom. It's easy to live your life on your own terms when there's not another house within a couple of miles of you, but now we are all cramming into smaller and smaller spaces and things that may have seemed like the right to personal choice, effect other people and their rights also. There is really no such thing as social conservatism because even those that hold those opinions are certainly not willing to go back a hundred years or so in time.
  16. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    IMG_2961[1].jpg

    Live here and have deer and bear for neighbors, and the few humans that are around keep to themselves.

    Live in Chicago on the 65th floor, and you have a very different world. Maybe its time for a little "contagion".
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