Help w/New Deep Well Pump Install

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by NGSP2008, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. NGSP2008

    NGSP2008 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    North Ga Mountains
    Hi all...new here and very new to well pump installation. Our Flotec pump burned out (I am assuming), purchased new one, have already installed...well..95% of the way. Following is my info:

    Well
    1: 4" submersible pump
    2: age of well if known = 6 years
    3: depth of well if known = 350' (by measurement of pipe we pulled out)
    4: diameter of well if known = 6"
    5: voltage of pump if known = 230 VAC
    6: brand of pump = Flotec 1Hp Model FP2232
    7: size of tank if known = Not Sure, small only about 4' tall - Pre-charged
    _________________________________________________

    Here is my dilemma....this is my 1st ever pump installation. We lowered the pump, etc and got to the last 15' 1" hose, which by then ws very heavy of course.

    I have one of these well caps that is constructed with a split steel base on top, with 4 hex bolts and a thick rubber gasket on the bottom (original that was in place when well was built). A plumber friend of mine (whom is out of town for the week) told me to put a little bit of vaseline on the gasket to ease the fit into the well standpipe. It was almost dark by this point and my wife, well, put "alot" of vaseline around the edge whilst myself and two others were holding the weight of the pump, etc. Lowered the cap down.

    I am clueless as to how these caps work, but pretty much figured out by tightening the hex bolts, something within the gasket spreads it out to form the seal and securing the 1" hose. Well, as I tightened, the right half of the split cap popped out of the standpipe and kept popping out hence too much lube. What do I need to do now....lift this back out and thoroughly clean the vaseline off? I am very nervous doing this as I am afraid of losing the pump.

    What is the correct procedure for tightening these caps? I am assuming the split piece should be even on each side and meet flush with the other piece. What actually is inside this gasket that makes it spread out? That is mystifying to me.

    Will this cap provide enough "grasp" to hold this weight? You don't want to know how I found it (the original install)

    Also, why in the world is this well so deep? I can shine a flashlight down the pipe and see water maybe less than 100" down.

    I also had forgeign matter go down with the hose...ie: dirt particles, etc. I assume that leaving the pump sit over night any of this should have settled to the bottom and will be ok.

    Thanks so much for your help...we have been out of water since Tuesday morning.... :eek:
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The Vaseline and rubber aren't going to get along well, all petroleum products ruin rubber. Tell your plumber buddy.

    I'd replace the sanitary seal with a new one and get all the Vaseline off the casing and drop pipe.

    The rubber gasket is between top and bottom pieces of steel. As you tighten the bolts the rubber is squeezed out against the casing and around the drop pipe. I would not rely on the seal holding the pipe, use an elbow to prevent the pipe from being able to slip down through the seal.

    Wells are as deep as they have to be to be able to produce enough water for the house.
  3. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    From what you said, you are missing the two bottom halves of your cast iron well seal. If so, you might want to get a new one real quick. If you pulled the bolts all the way out (4) you probably lost the other two halves down the well. If that's the case, be darned glad you have a six inch well. If it had been 4" you would have never got the old pump out.

    What ever possessed you to buy a Flotec?

    bob...
  4. NGSP2008

    NGSP2008 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    North Ga Mountains
    Well, no...we just turned the bolts a few 1/4 turns and that allowed us to pull it out originally...nothing fell.

    I bought a galvanized elbow 3/4 x 1 and a 1" galvanized barbed "shove in" insert for the drop line. That barbed insert with hose clamps....will it hold?

    If you think or know the barbed insert with hose clamps will work, I'll go for it. Yes, the pump is tied off with a wire.

    I also am having a hrad time finding something to hold the drop line good since it's so smooth. It's a 1" hard plastic flexible hose.

    Why a Flotec...well...it's what is available at Home Depot and we are remote...not much up here.
  5. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Your using the internet now, you might have done the same looking for a pump. The quality would have been much better. If your really remote, there wouldn't be a Home Depot anywhere to be found. Remember demographics.

    You said: "I have one of these well caps that is constructed with a split steel base on top, with 4 hex bolts and a thick rubber gasket on the bottom" That is why I assumed you had dropped the bottom two cast iron pieces.

    If your plastic pipe is 125 psi or better it is much stronger than any wire, cable or rope you can tie to the pump. The safety cable thing is a weekend warrior idea not used by any pro's that I know. If you use two good hose clamps and a good galvanized or brass barb fitting, it will hold if applied properly. There are lots of opinions on what the right way is, if you care to do the research here.

    bob...
  6. NGSP2008

    NGSP2008 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    North Ga Mountains
    I am pretty certain there is not a bottom plate. No telling, it was installed by the guy who built this log home and I sure do not recall seeing one hence my confusion as to how the seal worked. He was under pressure to sell this house and the well had to go in last minute in order for an FHA mortgage. I have already found some short cuts on his plumbing. There was no check valve installed, etc. He also had a PVC 1/2" 90 at the top of the well drop pipe connected to the line that goes underground to the house with two hose clamps. Yeah...I don't know how that ever held.
  7. NGSP2008

    NGSP2008 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    North Ga Mountains
    Thanks Bob. I don't really want opinions, looking for the right way from the pro's. I didn't have time for internet search and order with it going out two days before Christmas. Flotec seemed like a quality product to me and it has worked just fine for 6 years prior. It also was within my budget. Not much to work with here at this time of year.

    Ok, yes, I have the galvanized barbed insert...if used properly...I only see one way of installing it? I'll try doing a search on here and see what I can find then.
  8. NGSP2008

    NGSP2008 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    North Ga Mountains
    Yes, it's 125 PSI. What I mean by holding the pipe is where it exits the seal plate. If I install the elbow, all the wieght will sit on that on top of the plate. Also "holding" the pipe securely while installing. I'll see what I can figure out.
  9. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    If there is no bottom plate, what do you screw those bolts into?

    Since you don't want opinions and you seem to know what your doing already, I'll bow out before I say something I might regret.

    bob...
  10. NGSP2008

    NGSP2008 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    North Ga Mountains
    Bob, please...Don't take that in the wrong format, you guys are the pro's in my mind. I have never done this before and under alot of stress. My apologies if that came across differently.

    The night before the well pump went out, my son was kidnapped at gunpoint he witnessed the perpertrator being shot by police, so my head is not all that clear yet. Yes, he's now here at our home safe.

    The pipe is a Silverline Siloflex 160 PSI.

    Not observing closely enough, yes...yes...the bottom plate is still intact...thank God.

    I am going to go try to secure this pipe so I can lift the cap and get that vaseline off and then try to go from there.

    Tim
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Sorry to hear about your other problems and I hope all works out well.

    Galvanized is a bad material IMO, it rusts and adds iron to your water while it can block up.

    The insert fitting should be an extended model, the barbs are about twice the length of on regular fittings. An extra 1-2 clamps, 3-4 in all, isn't a bad idea. Just don't tighten them with the tubing hot. let it cool to air temp first, and you should use the torque wrench made for them.

    Tighten the seal on the pipe below the clamps and it won't go anywhere but don't suck the bolts down 'til they don't turn, snugged up is good.

    You mentioned a check valve, the only one you need is in or on the pump's outlet; there shouldn't another one anywhere.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  12. NGSP2008

    NGSP2008 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    North Ga Mountains
    Ok, got everything in. Went to test the pump with a temporary gate (ball) valve assembly at the well. Nothing....no water, no air coming out. I tested the voltage at the quick disconnect box and I am getting 230V. It shoouldn't take too long to rise up and exit the ball valve?

    Question..Page 3 of the pump manual says that the pump motor leads have a Red/Black & ground. Well, the leads on this pump were Black/Black/Green. No polarity? Now...I am very confused.

    I looked at the old pump, same thing. Two (2) black and one (1/ green.

    Any ideas?

    Yes, I was going to install a check valve at the well. So...I should not install this one?
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    There is no polarity on 240v. Ground is green and the other two whatever color goes to the other two.

    I can't tell you why there is no water but you need to do conductivity and ohms checks; of course with the power off. The acceptable ohms may be in that manual.
  14. NGSP2008

    NGSP2008 New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    North Ga Mountains
    Hi Gary,

    Yep, I went and cut my splice at the well, tested "through" my splice and read 230VAC. Then, I also checked the leads running to the pump for continuity between all leads, none found.

    Do you mean 'amperage" check? Never heard of ohms on power.

    The points on the left side of the pressure switch look kinda of fried, about half way gone and black...but obviously still passing power all the way to the well. The points on the right side...nice and clean. BUT, could this drop amps or something?? To where the pump motor is getting the required voltage but not the required amperage? I'm a low voltage guy so wouldn't have a clue there.
  15. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Sorry about your sons kidnapping. That's awful.

    Now that we have solved the problem with the well seal, you are going to need to do some troubleshooting.

    With all three leads disconnected from the power source at the well, you need to check for continuity with an ohm meter. You will set the meter to RX1. Read between both black wires going to the pump motor. You should read about 2-6 ohms. Then check both of them to the casing if it's metal or to the green wire. You should have the meter on the RX1K. The reading should be more than 500,000 ohms and much better if it's 10 meg or better. If your meter is digital, disregard the RX numbers.

    If you don't get these readings, post back and we will see what we can do next.

    bob...
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