Help - Rainsoft Water Softener

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by westindies, Aug 7, 2010.

  1. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    Most of those that have years under the belt have a business to run and are on service calls...
    I FULLY REALIZE THAT. I AM BOTH IN THE AC TRADE AND AN ELECTRICIAN SO I CAN RELATE.

    The system that you have is no longer sold by Rainsoft...
    I DIDN'T KNOW THAT

    they have changed to a different type of valve.
    I SEE, HOWEVER, THE VALVE IS WORKING FINE NOW AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.

    Most likely the valve will need a rebuild as there should not be water going to the drain or brine tank if the system is in full service...
    .....THIS IS THE PART THAT I AM CONFUSED ABOUT..... THE VALVE FUNCTIONS WELL SINCE I UN-FROZE IT BUT, THERE IS A PIECE OF BLACK TUBING THAT RUNS FROM THE SIDE OF THE UNIT INTO THE BRINE TANK AND HAS WATER RUNNING FROM IT INTO THE BRINE TANK CONTINUOUSLY.... I HAVE THE OPERATIONAL MANUALS FOR THIS UNIT THAT I DOWNLOADED BUT THEY AREN'T WORTH $HIT!....

    ...AFTER A BIT, IT WILL/SHOULD EVENTUALLY FILL UP THE BRINE TANK AND RUN OUT OF THE OVER-FLOW.....I MAY NOT BE FULLY UNDERSTANDING THE OPERATIONAL SETTINGS OF THE UNIT BUT, ALL ARE SET UP AS PER TIME.....


    ....I READ ABOUT BACK-WASHING (OR SIMILAR) BUT, NOT SURE WHERE THE DISCHARGE OF THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE RUNNING OUT OF OR INTO!.....

    .....I SEE A TRANSPARENT CANISTER OF SORTS AND THERE IS ABOUT 3/8'' OF WATER IN IT AND NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANS. IF I CAN DETERMINE THESE ISSUES, I WILL BE CONVINCED THAT THIS SYSTEM, ALTHOUGH NOT YET INSTALLED, IS ACTUALLY WORKING.

    Most likely it would be cheaper to start with a new system than to try and get the one that you have up and running again.
    ...WELL, THAT IS WHY I AM HERE - TO SEE IF WHAT I HAVE WORKS AND IF SO, DEVELOP AN UNDERSTANDING AS TO HOW TO USE IT AND THEN, TO INSTALL IT AS OPPOSED TO BUYING A NEW ONE.
  2. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    Sounds like the float assembly in the brine tank might not be closing when it should, it should reach a level and stop the water coming in like the tank on the toilet.
    That brine line is often a 3/8 line, the drain line is larger.
    Most of the older Rainsoft manuals are not very good.....
    The transparent canister is like the Autorol valve set up that uses that same deal.
  3. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    Sounds like the float assembly in the brine tank might not be closing when it should, it should reach a level and stop the water coming in like the tank on the toilet.
    .THANKS FOR THE REPLY!!....I OPENED THE BRINE TANK AND ALL I SEE IS A LONG PLASTIC TUBE THAT APPEARS TO BE PART OF THE TANK....THERE IS A SMALLER TUBE/HOSE THAT RUNS FROM THAT CLEAR CANISTER I HAD MENTIONED AND DOWN INTO THE CENTER OF THAT TUBE (I HAVE NO IDEA AS TO WHAT THAT DOES)....THERE IS THAT LARGER BLACK TUBE THAT I MERELY DRAPED OVER THE EDGE TO DISCHARGE INTO THE BRINE TANK.....WHAT DOES THAT DISCHARGE?....SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, THAT LARGER BLACK LINE THAT APPEARS TO HAVE A CONTINUOUS FLOW OF VERY LOW PRESSURE WATER NEEDS A FLOAT SHUT-OFF OF SORTS?...IF THAT IS CORRECT, LOOKS LIKE I MAY BE MISSING A PART!...MAYBE I CAN MAKE ONE OUT OF A NEW FLUID-MASTER TOILET VALVE ASSEMBLY.

    That brine line is often a 3/8 line, the drain line is larger.
    SEE ABOVE....THERE IS A "PORT" AT THE TOP SIDE OF THE BRINE TANK THAT I WAS TOLD WAS FOR THE OVER-FLOW....NOT SURE WHERE THE DRAIN LINE IS SUPPOSED TO BE OR ATTACHED TO...THERE IS A PREVIOUS POST THAT SHOWS A PICT OF THE CONTROL HEAD THAT SOMEONE TOOK...

    Most of the older Rainsoft manuals are not very good.....
    NO KIDDING!

    The transparent canister is like the Autorol valve set up that uses that same deal.
    IS THAT THE "REGULATOR" THAT DETERMINES HOW MUCH "SALT(?) OR WATER EVER FLOWS INTO THE TANK OR IS ADDED TO THE WATER?....
  4. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    There are two ways of timing the water going into the brine tank, the control valve opens a valve for a time frame to let water into the brine tank or the float assembly is set so that x amount of water goes in to make a brine of x.
    If I remember the set up like yours it is in the brine tank that has a float set at a level to make x for brine.
    There is a larger line that comes off your valve to go to the DRAIN so that when the unit backwashes it goes down that drain.
  5. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    Ok. Here is water softening 101. There are 4 basic cycles to a valve. Backwash...used to lift the resin bed and prep it for the brining cycle. Brining cycle...This is when brine is drawn into the unit to regen the resin. This can be split into 2 cycles (brine drawn and brine rinse). Rinse cycle..This cycle rinses the excess salt from the resin and packs the resin to prep it for service. The last cycle is service. The valve must refill the brine tank. This is done sometimes with the rinse cycle or after. With your valve, you should not have a brine fill with the unit in service. If you do, than a flapper is leaking by.
  6. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    There are two ways of timing the water going into the brine tank, the control valve opens a valve for a time frame to let water into the brine tank or the float assembly is set so that x amount of water goes in to make a brine of x.
    THANK YOU...I DON'T SEE ANY "ELECTRICALLY OPERATED VALVES OF ANY SORT. I TOOK OFF TE FACE PLATE OF THE CONTROL HEAD TO LOOK AROUND AND NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT..NOW IT IS THE MISSING FLOAT ASSEMBLY I AM CONCERNED ABOUT..LOOKS LIKE I MAY BE FINISHED.

    If I remember the set up like yours it is in the brine tank that has a float set at a level to make x for brine.
    UGH!...SEE ABOVE

    There is a larger line that comes off your valve to go to the DRAIN so that when the unit backwashes it goes down that drain
    SO, THE BACKWASH GOES OUT OF TE SAME LINE THE THAT IS DISCHARGING WATER INTO THE BRINE TANK AS I MENTIONED?
  7. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    THANKS FOR THE REPLY
    Ok. Here is water softening 101. There are 4 basic cycles to a valve. Backwash...used to lift the resin bed and prep it for the brining cycle. Brining cycle...This is when brine is drawn into the unit to regen the resin. This can be split into 2 cycles (brine drawn and brine rinse). Rinse cycle..This cycle rinses the excess salt from the resin and packs the resin to prep it for service. The last cycle is service. The valve must refill the brine tank.
    SO, THE BRINE TANK WILL HAVE A DETERMINED AMOUNT OF WATER COVERING THE IRON REMOVING PELLETS I PUT IN?

    This is done sometimes with the rinse cycle or after. With your valve, you should not have a brine fill with the unit in service.
    COULD THIS BE BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE THE FLOAT ASSEMBLY FOR THE BRINE TANK AS I MENTIONED?..I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY OTHER VISIBLE VALVES..

    If you do, than a flapper is leaking by.
    FLAPPER?????????...WHERE?
  8. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    Drain from the softener is just that drain and it DOES NOT GO INTO THE BRINE TANK, it goes down the drain like the Washer goes down the drain.
    I looked at a Rainsoft Brass that is like yours(most likely)that is in my used pile ,,, there may be a timed fill, but most likely there needs to be a float assembly in the brine tank.
    With the age of yours and the challenges that you are talking about and the possible missing parts and the time needed to get it right, a new fleck 2510 or 5600 complete with 2310 safety float in brine tank would be cheaper and quicker in getting treated water into the house.
  9. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    Drain from the softener is just that drain and it DOES NOT GO INTO THE BRINE TANK, it goes down the drain like the Washer goes down the drain.
    I looked at a Rainsoft Brass that is like yours(most likely)that is in my used pile ,,, there may be a timed fill, but most likely there needs to be a float assembly in the brine tank.
    With the age of yours and the challenges that you are talking about and the possible missing parts and the time needed to get it right, a new fleck 2510 or 5600 complete with 2310 safety float in brine tank would be cheaper and quicker in getting treated water into the house.
  10. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    Drain from the softener is just that drain and it DOES NOT GO INTO THE BRINE TANK, it goes down the drain like the Washer goes down the drain.
    OHHH, I SEE....IF YOU SAY THAT COMES FROM THE FLOAT ASSEMBLY, THEN, THE BACKWASH USES THE SAME LINE AS COMES FROM THE SIDE/BOTTOM AREA OF TE CONTROL HEAD S0-TO-SPEAK.

    I looked at a Rainsoft Brass that is like yours(most likely)that is in my used pile ,,,
    MINE RESEMBLES OR IS AS THE ONE DEPICTED AT THE START OF THIS THREAD.

    there may be a timed fill, but most likely there needs to be a float assembly in the brine tank.
    WHICH I AM MISSING, JUST A LONG HOLLOW TUBE THAT THE 3/8'' LINE FROM THE CLEAR CANISTER SNAKES THROUGH.

    With the age of yours and the challenges that you are talking about and the possible missing parts
    YEP....


    and the time needed to get it right, a new fleck 2510 or 5600 complete with 2310 safety float in brine tank would be cheaper and quicker in getting treated water into the house.
    UGH.....
  11. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
  12. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    *************

    thanks for the reply however, i already have this as well as 5-8 more i downloaded some time ago....
  13. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    Rainsoft valve.jpg

    Please note the two lines just behind the control head, there is the smaller that goes to the clear bottle, and then there is the larger one, that larger one is the drain and does not go to the brine tank in any way.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  14. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    Please note the two lines just behind the control head, there is the smaller that goes to the clear bottle,
    I SEE 1 (ONE) SMALL LINE THAT GOES FROM CONTROL HEAD (IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY) WHICH GOES TO THE APPROX TOP OF THE CLEAR CANISTER WITH WHAT APPEARS TO BE A CHECK BALL INSIDE...THEN, OFF TO THE SIDE BOTTOM AND FROM THAT VERY SAME CANISTER, THERE IS ANOTHER LINE THAT GOES (I WAS TOLD) INTO THE BRINE TANK WHICH EVENTUALLY WINDS UP AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BRINE TANK.

    and then there is the larger one,
    YES, IT IS FROM THE SIDE/BACK AREA OF THE CONTROL HEAD AND I THOUGHT THAT IT WENT INTO THE BRINE TANK. AT THIS POINT, I AM NOT SURE WHERE IT GOES EXCEPT TO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU GUYS SAY IT GOES TO "WASTE" (DRAIN).

    that larger one is the drain and does not go to the brine tank in any way.
    AS ABOVE.

    **TO NOTE; IF ONE 3/8'' LINE GOES FROM THE CONTROL HEAD TO THE TOP OF THE CANISTER AND ONE 3/8'' LINE GOES FROM THE BOTTOM/SIDE OF THE CANISTER AND THEN TO THE BRINE TANK, LEAVING ONLY THE HEAVIER LINE FOR WASTE AS MENTIONED, THEN, I AM MISSING SOME SORT OF A LINE FROM THE BRINE FLOAT ASSEMBLY THAT SOMEONE MENTIONED OR AM I GETTING IT MIXED UP? (IF THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SOME SORT OF A FLOAT ASSEMBLY INSIDE THE BRINE TANK, I AM MISSING IT APPARENTLY). **TOMORROW I WILL TRY AND TAKE SOME PICTS.
  15. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    HOSE2.JPG

    ok...not sure if image will come out..this is my unit.
    "a" goes to brine tank
    "b" goes to discharge (waste as you have told me)
    "c" is the output of unit to pipes for house when connected.
    **the canister never fills but, only has about 1/4-3/8 inch of liquid in it...IF THE LARGER LINE GOES TO WASTE (DRAIN) WHAT REGULATES IT?....DIDN'T SOMEONE MENTION A FLOAT ASSEMBLY HAVING TO DO WITH THIS?....I HAD IT GOING INTO THE BRINE TANK WHICH WAS FILLING UP..I THINK I HAVE TO BE SURE THAT THE RE-GEN IS SHUT OFF...MAYBE I HAVE IT RUNNING AND DON'T KNOW IT??
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  16. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    The drain line often has a washer like item behind where the tube hooks on that controls the amount of water that is to flow, ie 2.0 gpm or 3.0gpm .. etc..

    The float assembly in the brine tank most of the time is the back up to keep the brine tank from over flowing , nothing more. There are some that use the float assembly in the brine tank to let in only x number of gallons of water to make up the brine for the next cleaning.
  17. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    double posting of reply
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  18. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    The drain line often has a washer like item behind where the tube hooks on that controls the amount of water that is to flow, ie 2.0 gpm or 3.0gpm .. etc..
    YES, THAT IS THERE, STILL, DON'T KNOW WHAT TURNS THAT "LINE" ON AND OFF.

    The float assembly in the brine tank most of the time is the back up to keep the brine tank from over flowing , nothing more.
    WELL, ALL I SEE IS A RIGHT-ANGLED PLASTIC FITTING NEAR THE TOP THAT LOOKS LIKE IT COULD BE FOR OVER-FLOW...THAT BEING THE CASE, I WOULDN'T KNOW WHY A FLOAT DEVICE WOULD BE NECESSARY IN PART..I STILL DON'T KNOW HOW LIQUID FINDS IT'S WAY INTO THE BRINE TANK..THE ONLY HOSE I SEE THAT NOW GOES TO IT IS A SINGLE 3/8'' HOSE AS DISCUSSED AND ONLY A TOTAL OF THREE PORTS THAT CALL FOR HOSES; (1) CONTROL HEAD TO TOP OF CANISTER, (2) BOTTOM/SIDE OF CANISTER TO BRINE TANK (BOTTOM), LARGE LINE OFF SIDE OF CONTROL HEAD YOU INDICATE IS WASTE, THAT'S IT .

    There are some that use the float assembly in the brine tank to let in only x number of gallons of water to make up the brine for the next cleaning.
    THIS IS WHAT CONFUSES ME..I ONLY HAVE 1 3/8'' LINE GOINT TO BOTTOM OF BRINE TANK AND I LARGE LINE DISCHARGING ONTO TEH GROUND LETS SAY...I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE 3/8'' LINE IS A SUCTION LINE OF SORTS THEN....
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  19. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,483
    Location:
    Alaska
    It is hard to get ones mind around the idea that so many try very hard to make things harder than they are.

    The brine line is a supply line to the brine tank for fresh water and it is a supply line to the media for the brine when the system is in reg mode.

    Read the manual for the 5600 ..starting on page 16 there is the run down on the different parts of the cycle, now while the book is for the fleck 5600, the only difference is the Valve... yours does the same things that the Fleck does and in the same order.
  20. lawyr

    lawyr New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Florida
    It is hard to get ones mind around the idea that so many try very hard to make things harder than they are.
    GEEZ, EASY MAN...

    The brine line is a supply line to the brine tank for fresh water and it is a supply line to the media for the brine when the system is in reg mode.
    WELL, NOBODY CAME OUT TO TELL ME THAT THE SINGLE 3/8'' LINE FOR THE BRINE TANK HAS A 2 FOLD FUNCTION - TO BOTH ADD WATER TO THE SALT/BRINE AND TO BE A SUCTION LINE FOR BRINE BACK TO THE SYSTEM.


    Read the manual for the 5600 ..starting on page 16 there is the run down on the different parts of the cycle, now while the book is for the fleck 5600, the only difference is the Valve... yours does the same things that the Fleck does and in the same order
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