Help...New Well Question...

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Ringtail, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Ringtail

    Ringtail New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Texas
    Just recently had a new well dug. The only thing that has been done at this point is that the well is dug and cased. No tank or pump has been installed. The well is about 700 feet deep. I was out at my property and removed a cap that been placed on top of the casing. The cap was simply a PVC 4" cap that fit snugly on the top casing tube. It was not cemented...just placed to keep debris out.

    When I removed the cap and put my ear to the top of the casing, I could hear what I best describe sounded like running water? I thought it was perhaps wind that was blowing around the surface and causing some type of side effect but don't think this was the case. Any idea what that sound could be? My concern is that the casing is somehow compromised/broken....would a damaged casing cause this type of sound?
  2. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,901
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    First off, you say dug, but I would think it was drilled. Also, at 700 feet, I assume it goes into bedrock. There are a few explanations I can think of. One is that several veins were drilled through and water is trickling from an upper vein. Another is that the seal between the casing and bore is leaking.

    I would assume there is a report on file for the well. A downhole camera would reveal the source of the sound.
  3. Ringtail

    Ringtail New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks LLigetfa...you are right, I should have used 'drilled'. It did go all the way to bedrock and the well driller mentioned that they hit a pocket of water at 300 feet. Could water be flowing from the 300 feet area? If so, why would it make that sound if its cased? Would water be flowing on the outside of the casing?

    Also, if it matters, a few weeks when I did the same...I could not hear any sounds. We have gotten quite a bit or rain in the past few days. Appreciate any further thoughts.

    There is a report filed with my state....anything I should look for on the report. I do know the water level/static level initially came up to 65 feet, but believe it dropped to about 120 feet since.
  4. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,901
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    The report should say how far down the casing goes.

    Here is a youtube video of a downhole camera.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLy7-Z_s8sA[video=youtube;GLy7-Z_s8sA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLy7-Z_s8sA[/video]
  5. Ringtail

    Ringtail New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks...that was good video. Looks like my well, per wells log, was cased to the bottom. below is what is in the log...If indeed casing is cracked/leaking....how big of deal is this and can it be fixed. The well will be used for agriculture....irrigation and cattle.

    8 5/8 new steel +2-36
    7 new steal -10-105
    4 1/2 new SDR17 pvc +2 -700
    mill slot 640 -700 .035

    It also has a comment that says "shale caving top 90' cased it with 7 casing"..

    would appreciate any further comments.
  6. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I know of a lot of wells where you can hear the water flowing like a river, or that blow out or suck air in all the time, so it maybe nothing to worry about.

    However, from the information you have given us, I could also guess that the Shale is still caving at 105’. Then because you can hear the water noise after a big rain, the rain might be getting under the 7” casing at 105’, and dropping to the static level of 120’, which could make a waterfall noise. That is probably not a good thing if the 7” isn’t sealed and rainwater is getting into the well.

    Unless the 4 ½ casing is broken, a camera is not going to tell you much. It won’t see anything until the first mill slots at 640’. That is going to be deeper than the noise is coming from.

    If the water test has contaminants like the surface water in the area, and it keeps coming back after being treated, rainwater is probably getting past the seal.
  7. Ringtail

    Ringtail New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks Valveman...appreciate the information.

    How would water getting under the casing at 105' drop the static level?

    Also, how would one go about sealing the 7" (if it is indeed not sealed)? Is this something that is repairable?

    Is something I should insist on from the well company?
  8. Smooky

    Smooky Member

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    NC
    I think what he is saying is if the static water level is 120 feet and it is leaking in at 105 foot then you are hearing it drip down 15 feet. He may think that the outer casing is set at around 105 foot. It should be pressed into the rock and be leak proof. ....Normally when a well is drilled the first part of the hole down to the rock is several inches bigger than the casing. When the driller gets to consolidated rock he drills several feet into the bed rock. A casing is then put into the hole and there is a hardened shoe on the section that is pressed into the rock. The casing sections are put together as it is lowered into the well. When the casing has been set then the well driller uses a smaller rock bit that fits inside the casing and drills the rest of the well into the rock. This part of the well is usually not cased (but it could be.) After the drill hole is finished and before the well rig moves, an over-reamer should be used. The over-reamer is like a 20 foot long hole saw. It goes over the outside of the well casing and bores out a space that can be grouted with cement. This 20 foot deep or deeper plug helps prevent surface water from getting into the well. A slab is usually poured at the surface too. Even after this is done there is still an annular space from below the grout plug down to the surface of the rock.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  9. Ringtail

    Ringtail New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks Smooky...understand. So is the fact I am hearing 'running water' a bad thing? There is a slab of sometype that was poured...I've attached a picture in the event that provides any additional information. Seems like a pretty challenging task to waterproof a well casing/hole.
  10. Smooky

    Smooky Member

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    NC
    “The cap was simply a PVC 4" cap that fit snugly on the top casing tube. “

    Then in another post you mentioned a 7 inch casing.

    It also has a comment that says "shale caving top 90' cased it with 7 casing"..

    I am a little unsure what is in the ground as far as how deep the well is cased and or is there some type of sleeve that goes to the bottom of the bore hole.

    It is possible that the 7 inch casing is cracked or is not seated into the top of the rock properly. There are other possible explanations. The only way to find out is to run a downhole camera in the well as suggested above.

    Have you discussed the running water sound with the well driller?

    http://www.inuktun.com/camera-systems/crystal-cam.html
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  11. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Three strings of casing.

    8 5/8 casing from +2” to 36’.
    7” casing from –10 to 105’.
    4 ½” casing from +2 to 700’.

    The –10 part on the 7” is what concerns me. It is anchored at 105’ in shale that was caving at 90’. Sounds like it fell 10-12’.

    If the rainwater could be going down the outside of the 7” and dumping into the annular space, the falling water is hitting the static level at 120’, which could be making the noise.

    I don’t think a camera or anything like that can see what is going on. If the well water won’t clear up, or gets cloudy after a rain, I would suspect rainwater is getting in. If that is happening, the 7” will probably drop even further as the shale sluffs off.

    If the water doesn’t get cloudy, doesn’t test positive for fecal coliform, and the 7” doesn’t drop any further, you probably don’t have anything to worry about.
  12. Ringtail

    Ringtail New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks again for the insights...really appreciate the feedback. Picture attached...

    I've not yet discussed the matter with the driller...will be doing so in the next day or so.

    Also, what is meant by the comment of the 7" dropping further? What is meant by the comment is fell 10-12' well pic (800x600) (2).jpg
  13. Smooky

    Smooky Member

    Messages:
    596
    Location:
    NC
  14. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    They are not all done this way in Texas. But it looks like the Driller did a very good job dealing with that caving shale. Every job is different and you just have to deal with what you get handed to you.

    If that 36’ of 8 5/8 is cemented properly, which it looks like it is, the surface water should not be able to get into the well. What you are probably hearing is a small water-bearing zone up high, cascading down to 120’, and making a waterfall noise. That should not be a problem.

    With the 7” starting at –10, it must have fallen down in the caving shale because it doesn’t have a hard bottom. Looks like the driller was just using the 7” to keep the shale from caving, long enough to get the rest of the well completed.

    Put a pump in there and see what happens. Probably going to make a nice well.
  15. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,901
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I provided that link to the video to show how water can come from fissures or from the bottom of a casing.

    We can talk about this until the cows come home. As you said, put a pump in the hole and test the water. I suspect the driller may have cased the full depth and screened the bottom because he expected there may be some sand coming into the bore hole.
  16. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    523
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    I drilled a well at my place a few years ago. When I put the cap on I had been blowing the well. A few weeks later I went to remove the cap and when I got it loose it blew up 2-3 ft. Turns out I had put the cap on before the static had come fully up so the casing had a little pressure on it but not enough to blow off the cap.

    I would not worry at all about any air or water fall noises. Get her pumping and make sure the water coming out is clear and clean. What kind of pump are you going with?

    PS LLigetfa: There is no bedrock on the wells in this part of Tx. They are all fully cased to the water bearing sand.
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