Help checking my installation plan for submersible pump (and a question)

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Buczar, Jun 7, 2014.

  1. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    Before I go and do this all wrong, I could use a bit of input from some who've done this before.

    If I've done this correct, below there should be an illustration of my "pump system diagram". Would love to hear if I've totally messed this up and what adjustments might be necessary.

    Pump Layout Diagram (1).jpg
    One specific questions I have noted in the chart:

    Where does the Pressure Relief Valve go?

    And related to that:
    What exactly is it going to do for me in this application? All of the charts and manuals seem to use it in conjunction with a pressure tank . . . but I'm not using a pressure tank.

    Other items I anticipate may need to help me:
    • My yard is flat (very flat, no more than 3-4' of rise from front to back)
    • Cistern is lifting no more than 5-feet.
    • Longest run is no more than 100'.
    • I'm estimating I'll normally pull 15 to 20 GPM.
    • one run is to a standard spigot so I can use a hose (or empty the tank). That run has 3/4" pipe I believe.
    • Cistern is fed from rain water (gutters) and back-up from under my home (I have constant water at 5', about 8" below my basement floor, yes this kind of sucks, except potentially for this application)

    Thanks in advance for any comments and feedback. Appreciate the help.

    Buczar
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,495
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I would put the pressure relief between the CSV and the filter. I assume the pump is being turned on by the pump start realy in the sprinkler controller or you are just turing it on manually?
  3. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    Hey, I think the intention is to do just what is described on your site in the link below. I have a CSV1A.

    http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/csvapplications_16.html

    It says use together, but does that mean in-line? My relief valve would seem to fit one if the small 1/2 inch side ports.

    And how does this work? Is it going to want to dump water back into the tank to regulate pressure?

    Thanks!
  4. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    Oh, and yes, pump being turned on by pump start relay.
  5. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,495
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The two 1/2" and the 3/4" port on the CSV1A are all downstream of the valve and can be used to connect the pressure tank, pressure switch, gauge, and in your case would work great for just the pressure relief valve.
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,432
    Location:
    IL
    Floating filter intake? Wouldn't an intake near the bottom be better?

    In fact, looking at that pump, it seems to have its own intake screen rather than a fitting for a water intake.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,066
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I didn't check the part number for that submersible but I have to wonder how one connects a floating intake to a submersible?

    Also, sucking from close to the surface can create a vortex.
  8. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    I will throw a picture in when I get home. Because it is in a cistern that collects rainwater, the floating filter apparently helps keep from sucking in the sediment that collects on the bottom. It sits about 6" below the water line. This makes a good deal of sense to me at least. They also say that the water near the top of the tank has more oxygen. This also makes sense, but I think is bumpkus. I can't really believe grass cares about the O2 content in the water! They seem to be fairly "standard" part of a rainwater harvesting system.

    Thanks to all for the comments to date. Very helpful.

    Buczar
  9. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    So, can my CSV1A be installed in my cistern? It would have the potential to become submerged if it is in there which seems like it could be not good. My plan is to install it in a control box outside of the tank, but my current plan does not call for it to be weather-proof. It will be below grade though under about 6- inches of wood chips and so easy to access, but certainly could get water in there.
  10. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,495
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The CSV1A is not designed to be submerged. If it is going to be under water use the CSV1-50 and drill the extra vent hole as described for submergence.
  11. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    Pump Installation Plan V2

    Ok, here is my revised plan and a list of questions before I dive-in should anyone be able to assist (read: save me from massively screwing up!)

    Pump Layout Diagram - Top View (1).jpg Pump Installation Diagram 2 - Side View (1).jpg

    Some questions:

    • How do you prperly tighten a nipple? (in this case between my reducing bushing and check valve)
    • What is the proper tightness for metal-to-metal fittings? Metal-to-plastic?
    • How many wraps of teflon tape on the fittings?
    • I have a float bracket. Do I also need to tie my floats to something (e.g., a pipe)?
    • Using a 2-float system with a pump start relay. how much should the levels overlap?


    Have about 50-more things to buy (sigh) - mostly for running the electrical stuff at this point but hoping to tackle most of this over the weekend. Wish me luck!

    Thanks for all of your help.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  12. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,495
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    With any threaded fitting you want to use enough Teflon to keep it from leaking, but not enough to act as a wedge and split the fitting or pipe. You also want to tighten enough to keep it from leaking, but not enough to split the fitting. Sorry but tightening different kinds of pipe and fitting is a lot about feel and experience, and is hard to describe.

    I usually stick a piece of pipe in a 5 gallon bucket and pour in a 1/3 of a sack of cement. The bucket sits on the bottom of the cistern and I use the pipe to attach the float(s). The more distance you can put between the floats the longer your pump will run to refill the cistern, which is a good thing.

    Also it would seem to defeat the purpose of a bottom intake pump if the water level cannot go close to the intake. In that case you would have more usable volume in the tank using a regular sub pump laying on its side.
  13. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    All - pump is in the tank. Couldn't of got this far w/o your help. Thanks.

    I have to run the power and connect the pump start relay etc. and have some specific questions about starting and calibrating, but will open new thread for that unless someone says that's poor protocol.

    Thanks again!

    Update: advice was to continue thread with my start-up q's to maintain context. Will do!
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2014
  14. mliu

    mliu Member

    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    California
    Wouldn't it make more sense to put the spin-down filter as the first device outside the cistern (before the CSV)?
  15. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    Mliu,

    My research all seemed to turn-up that CSV was the first in line. Makes sense as nothing that large should get this far to clog the CSV (I have an intake filter). Heck, I'm not sure what size particle clogs a CSV for that matter! But, even given that , my spin down has psi limits that, unless I'm mistaken, could possibly be exceeded on the pump-side of the CSV the risk of which would preclude me from putting it there.
  16. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    I wanted to batch my questions, but for now this is the main one:

    I think I get the instructions on calibrating the CSV. I will open it up all the way, open a down stream valve, and tighten until the flow is about 1 gpm. Seems easy enough.

    I'm not using a pressure tank, as mentioned above I think, but have a pressure relief valve on the CSV that will dump water back into the tank if needed (at least that is what I assume will happen)


    What should I set the pressure relief valve at? Or, how do I calibrate/determine?

    Thanks,
    Buczar
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,432
    Location:
    IL
    I guess you are saying that you have no pressure switch on that irrigation system either. If all valves are shut, you are still going to run the pump 24-7 unless the tank level drops... and if all valves are shut, the water level in the tank does not drop. I suspect some people somehow missed that aspect. Adding a pressure tank and a pressure switch to the output of the CSV are what I expect as recommendations.

    How much of the time do you expect at least one irrigation valve to be open?
  18. Buczar

    Buczar New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    MA
    Pump start relay is connected to my irrigation controller. Turns the pump on and off when the sprinklers call for it. I think that covers the pressure switch. Pump is probably going to run for maybe an hour plus or minus.
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,432
    Location:
    IL
    You should have a pressure tank at your pressure switch. Otherwise you will get an on/off/on/off oscillation. You should not need a big one, since you have the CSV. Size it so that the pump stays on a minimum of a minute.
  20. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,495
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    There is no problem running a CSV with a pump start relay instead of a pressure tank/pressure switch. The pressure relief valve needs to be after the CSV and set about 10 PSI higher than the CSV. It should only dump water if the pump start relay fails to shut the pump off and the pressure increase 10 PSI higher than the CSV.
Similar Threads: Help checking
Forum Title Date
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Contractor disappeared, need help hooking up storage tank Sunday at 8:32 PM
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Help setting up storage tank system Sep 18, 2014
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Desperately need help with Well Pump no pressure issue Sep 16, 2014
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog HELP Please: Troubleshooting My Jet Pump Sep 15, 2014
Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog Existing Well, need a new well??? Help lol Sep 3, 2014

Share This Page