GreenSkin Flooring's Anti Fracture Membrane - Anti Wicking design by Devcom

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, May 28, 2013.

  1. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    What can I say?

    I looked at the stuff.

    I tested the stuff.

    I have yet to find something crappier...

    So bad in fact I use the part roll I have as bond breaker tape!

    JW
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  2. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Lots has been written about GreenSkin. So far I can not find any real test data by a third party. My testing showed really low fail numbers for weight. The man Scott below works for Green Skin. These quotes taken from The John Bridge Tile Forum.


    "....You had a question on memory in the membrane: There is no stretch to our material though it is conformable. At the last wrap on the core it does curl but when you remove the release liner and swipe it down it goes down easy...."
    __________________
    Scott - Source


    Too funny. No stretch. Are you kidding me?
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Thanks for all the warm welcomes.
    Kevin, Without knowing more info about the floor and what is the overspray, thickness coverage and other things I can't answer your question exactly. What I would like to do is have you call me when you have time and discuss in more detail and I will send you a sample to do some testing. Also you should never put SLC type products on top of a peel and stick CSI membrane"
    __________________
    Scott -
    Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  4. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Good Morning everybody,
    Brigit and Front Range Building Products have been very busy sending out samples and taking care of orders from all you folks lately. I just want to check in and make sure everyone has been taken care of and nothing has fallen through the cracks. If anyone needs anything more (order or samples) please let me know so I can make sure you don’t get missed. Thanks. [​IMG]"

    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,139
    Location:
    New England
    Schluter's training classes (workshops) focus on discussing their products and how to properly use them. They do not touch on specific competitors products. It is not focused on 'ours is better', just what their products are capable of and how to use them. They discuss issues and how the product's design addresses that problem. If you wanted to make a specific comparison, you'd have to either be intimately familiar with the competitor, or possibly attend one of their workshops. I stress workshop since it is focuses on proper use, not a sales tool to address competitors' potential shortcomings or strengths. FWIW, most of their workshops not done at either Plattsburg, NY or Reno, NV are 2-days. Those at the factory/warehouse facilities are 2.5-days, and cover a bit more since they don't have to ship extra materials and they have supplies right there or pay to rent the facility for an extra day. I do not know how they run them in Canada or elsewhere in the world.
  6. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Hi John,
    I checked on your samples. They went out Wednesday so you should see them anytime now. Please keep me posted when they arrive. Thanks,
    Scott [​IMG]"
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "General info: Greenskin flooring products will stick to just about everything. The issue at hand is a clean substrate to apply the material to. If you are applying to dusty/dirty stuff like lightweight concrete, gypsum and alike, you will need to seal the substrate. By sealing it, GS will have a better surface to grab and it will lend some integrity to the substrate. We do offer a water based primer for such accusations. Occasion"
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  8. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "John,
    You can install this over electric heat depending on the element. Check the EH mfg instructions for their ability to have it covered. It is usually best to put the Greenskin down first element on top, again depending on the element. There are so many different types of heaters we can’t begin to understand all installations on this simple thread. As far as thin set and SLC needing primer, it depends on the surface prep, finish and cleanliness of the surface. As said in an earlier thread you don’t want to be installing this over a rake finish. If you want to give me a call we can discuss your specific situation."

    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    CX,
    Sorry to have caused so much confusion for you. We are a crack isolation membrane, the best in our opinion, and we do meet ANSI 118.12 for such membranes. See page 3 of this thread where Brigit posted. As far as waterproofing we do meet wp standards, and as a vapor barrier, we do not make the claim to use us in the shower pan though. We have not spent the money nor do intend to spend the money on IAPMO certifications to get a small percentage of area that carriers a high degree of liability as I’m sure you can understand. We have always recommended other manufacturers products for the shower pan. Flat is a better word than level to be used. I’m glad you were able to distinguish the difference and intent. The Tile Council of North America's TCA Handbook recommends allowing for expansion and contraction in every tile installation… we do offer guidelines in Detail EJ171 in the TCA Handbook. Thanks for catching the typo it should be a 118.4 and follow recommendations for installation from the TCA handbook not 118.12.
    Our product is performance tested and an excellent membrane. “Again, if that testing is listed in your document and I've just missed it, I apologize for that, but there are still some things in there than need to be addressed”. No worries. All of our customers are very satisfied with our product and we have had no complaints. I do appreciate you proofing the document and catching the inadequacies, it was very helpful. Thanks again. [​IMG]
    Scott"

    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  10. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Matt,
    Our membrane will stick to virtually any substrate. When discussing dim’s between joists we need to first look at deflection. A subfloor, in order to receive ceramic tile, cannot deflect more than 1/360 of the length (in inches) of the floor under a concentrated 300 pound load, and for natural stone, it can’t deflect more than half that distance (1/720– also known as L/360 and L/720).
    We are not claiming to be a catch all/do all membrane. TCNA has done extensive testing on hundreds if not thousands of different conditions, more than we could ever hope to do. They have given us guidelines to follow to counteract the forces of thermodynamics, gravity and bad construction from the original builder. We are an excellent crack suppression membrane. I appreciate your interest and hope you will try out our product when you have the chance. Give me a call I’m just up the road from you in Littleton."
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Dana,
    We are in progress of rewriting a better, simpler installation handbook with quite a bit more detail. I hope to see a final draft very soon.
    As far as spacing goes 16 o.c. 19/32” T/G exterior grade plywood single layer.
    19.2” o.c. 23/32” exterior grade plywood/OSB single layer. 24” o.c. 23/32” T/G exterior grade plywood under 3/8” exterior grade plywood/OSB. All scenarios with a .125” gap between boards. GS has been manufactured for 5+ yrs now. The qty we have made...? I’m not exactly sure...certainly, well into the MMSF levels. We’re not as big as a few of our competitors, and we have not been around for 20+ years, but we surely plan on it...and we can always hold our own.. Thanks for your help.
    Scott"
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  12. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "You are correct the GreenSkin was designed as a waterproofing membrane and about the excess costs involved with the certs. As far as liquid covering; what is recommended is you seal all your seams. This is to ensure you haven’t left any voids or wrinkles in the application that can allow water under the membrane to wreak havoc. It’s a belt and suspenders approach but it gets you assurance you haven’t left something behind that will later get you. Thanks for all the posts and pictures. I appreciate all the interest in the product. Sorry I am not on here as much as I should be to answer questions, very busy. Feel free to email or call me any time."
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  13. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Hello everyone, trying to gauge participation/interest level in the video contest. Make sure we can pull off a good contest. Will you please email or PM me, if you haven't done so already, and let me know you intentions. Thanks

    Video Contest Information
    The theme will be to create an install video 60 to 120 seconds long. The competition (if we get sufficient participation) will begin May 13, 2013 and run through June 30, 2013. There will be one first place, one second place and one third place prize awarded. The prizes are: 1st, 5 rolls of GreenSkin Flooring CSI, 2nd, 3 rolls of GreenSkin Flooring CSI and 3rd, 1 roll of GreenSkin Flooring shipped at no charge (all rolls are 36” x 75’, 225 sqft). For any participant that will need to purchase GreenSkin CSI to make the video, GreenSkin will give a factory rebate for 10% of the purchase price for material purchased in May 2013 through June 15, 2013 when invoices and videos are emailed to me sford@devcomtape.com.
    The videos will be judged using several methods. We will look at the number of likes from your peers in the tile profession as well as any feedback from them, feedback from our distributors and views/votes from the employees at GreenSkin Flooring. The videos should follow these basic guidelines:
     Very well lighted.
     50’ – 75’ square foot installation minimum (for clarity of the video).
     At least two passes of the GreenSkin material.
     Clear audio.
     Show surface prep and cleaning.
     Installation showing release and adhesion.
     Butt seam edge joint alignment.
     Thin-set and tile installation highlighting no down time between GreenSkin install and applying the thin-set.
     Contractor Credits, names, phone number, email or whatever you feel comfortable giving out on our page.
    Please let me know your thoughts and if you would like to participate. We hope to get a good turnout. If you have any questions or comments please to send me a face book message, email or you call always call, 503-849-4106.
    Thank you. I hope to hear from you soon,
    Scott"
    _____ _____________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  14. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Beaux,
    There are several differences with the two products. A few being a 2 part system as opposed to a peal and stick, amount of crack suppression, water vapor transmission/waterproofing aspects, amount of time for installation. If you are looking to see where a knock off might be you must at a minimum compare two products in the same category. If you would like any more information on GreenSkin flooring please feel free to contact me or check out our face book page @ www.facebook.com/greenskinflooring. Thanks for your interest Beaux."
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  15. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Yes Jim we always recommend sealing the seams. You never know when a wrinkle might get in there and cause a failure. Outside of our product that is very expensive to ship, the guys have excellent success using Hdro ban product. I hate to sell other company's products but that one seems to work very well with us."
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  16. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Brad we have never tested the warmboard product. I don't know what the surface is or it's temperatures to say if we are compatible. Other R heat systems we work well with, just not sure about this one."
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  17. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    "Rich,
    Generally you don't need to primer new good shape plywood for GS. but it is always great belt and suspenders approach as the guys on this thread will attest. I have never used that primer you speak of so if you want to use it I would do a quick test patch to make sure of compatibility. We have never had issue with water based products we have tested. Feel free to give me a call if you want to discuss this. Paul that's a great picture, thanks for the support!!!"
    __________________
    Scott - Source
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  18. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    GreenSkin over tile vs 8+9

    Test still pending
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  19. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Post(s) removed by John Whipple
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  20. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,406
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    GreenSkin Shear Testing - First Round a Fail
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014

Share This Page