First time homeowner, need water softener advice

[Brecchi]

You should also read and learn as much as you can about how to size your softener. Here's one of the best I've found on softener sizing.

https://www.best-osmosis-systems.com/water-softener-size/

There are many others, just poke around. It all comes down to maximum flow rate, usage per day, hardness of your water, iron/manganese content. Once you have a clear handle on those things, you can properly calculate what you need.

G

Thanks for the link. I did start to get a bit lost, but from all the calculations done before and since, I will likely go with a 48,000 capacity unit. There are 2 of us in a 3000 square ft house, but we may have a couple of kids in the future so I'm budgeting for that. I figure better too big than too small. My basic, non lab test put me at 120PPM for hardness.

 

[Gary Bowling]

That seems a little large to me, but maybe if you use a lot of water. Here are some calculations.

Current hardness in grains is 7. Since we don't know at the moment, I'll add 0.2 for iron as a guess. If there is no iron that's great but it's just to be on the safe side. That adds 0.2 * 4 or 0.8. So your compensates hardness is 7.8, let's just call it 8 to be safe.

4 people times 70 gallons per day gives you 280 gallons per day. Just for safeness, let's add 20 gallons to arrive at 300 gallons per day.

Now to get how much hardness you need to remove per day, multiply the gallons per day needed times your compensated hardness. So that is 300*8, which is 2400.

If you regenerate once per week, you multiply 2400*7, giving you 16,800 total grains capacity needed.

For efficient salt use, you need to run your softener at around 70% of it's rated size. A 1 cuft softener with a nominal size of 32K run at 70% will give you a capacity of 22,400. plenty of capacity for your needs of 16,800.

Now if your hardness goes up, all this will need to be redone.

G

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

A softener containing 1.5 ft3 resin is usually a good size for many homes, but to calculate the size needed, will require an accurate hardness test in which test strips are not recommended. Because it is well water, there maybe other minerals and metals such as iron and manganese that could also consume softening capacity, which is why a comprehensive test is required.

A water softener is not an efficient method to remove iron and manganese but if the amount of each is relatively minor, many homeowners will not want to incurr the expense of a dedicated treatment system and want to use a WS to remove those metals also. We typically utilize a 5X factor when calculating compensated hardness grains per gallon per ppm of either iron or manganese, but the lab report will assist to confirm the amount of compensation required.

Almost all modern water softeners such as the Fleck or Clack based system that are commonly recommended on this forum, permit salt efficiency and other factors to be altered in programming.

 

[Brecchi]

That seems a little large to me, but maybe if you use a lot of water. Here are some calculations.

Current hardness in grains is 7. Since we don't know at the moment, I'll add 0.2 for iron as a guess. If there is no iron that's great but it's just to be on the safe side. That adds 0.2 * 4 or 0.8. So your compensates hardness is 7.8, let's just call it 8 to be safe.

4 people times 70 gallons per day gives you 280 gallons per day. Just for safeness, let's add 20 gallons to arrive at 300 gallons per day.

Now to get how much hardness you need to remove per day, multiply the gallons per day needed times your compensated hardness. So that is 300*8, which is 2400.

If you regenerate once per week, you multiply 2400*7, giving you 16,800 total grains capacity needed.

For efficient salt use, you need to run your softener at around 70% of it's rated size. A 1 cuft softener with a nominal size of 32K run at 70% will give you a capacity of 22,400. plenty of capacity for your needs of 16,800.

Now if your hardness goes up, all this will need to be redone.

G

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. I (mostly) followed it although I admit my vocabulary is a bit weak when t comes to all of this stuff. I'm surprised a 4 person household would need something along the size of a 22,400 capacity softener, although what you said makes perfect sense. I've been reading up as much as I can on all of this and it seems that 4 person households are in the 40-48k size range. I'm sure this number varies wildly with all of the different water quality scenarios involved.

All this being said, I would rather go for something bigger now than pay more for one later - unless it really is just wasteful.

Just ordered an NTL Watercheck Lite, I'll post results once I get them.

 

[Brecchi]

A softener containing 1.5 ft3 resin is usually a good size for many homes, but to calculate the size needed, will require an accurate hardness test in which test strips are not recommended. Because it is well water, there maybe other minerals and metals such as iron and manganese that could also consume softening capacity, which is why a comprehensive test is required.

A water softener is not an efficient method to remove iron and manganese but if the amount of each is relatively minor, many homeowners will not want to incurr the expense of a dedicated treatment system and want to use a WS to remove those metals also. We typically utilize a 5X factor when calculating compensated hardness grains per gallon per ppm of either iron or manganese, but the lab report will assist to confirm the amount of compensation required.

Almost all modern water softeners such as the Fleck or Clack based system that are commonly recommended on this forum, permit salt efficiency and other factors to be altered in programming.

Thanks, appreciate the info. I've just ordered a Watercheck Lite, hopefully this will be comprehensive enough to help in choosing an accurate softener.

 

[Gary Bowling]

Thanks, appreciate the info. I've just ordered a Watercheck Lite, hopefully this will be comprehensive enough to help in choosing an accurate softener.

Yes, a full water test is paramount. You are correct that most 4 person households would need something more along the lines of 40-48K, that's because generally well water hardness is quite a bit higher than 7.

The size I calculated is based on your provided hardness of only 7, a number that could actually be much higher. Which is why nobody else is giving you any information yet, other than "you need a water test." And they are correct!

G

 

[Brecchi]

Got the Watercheck Lite in the mail the other day. It took a while to arrive. I'll get a sample and mail it back in, and post results.

I have to go out of town a lot for work this summer, so after I get the test results it will probably be a few weeks before I can actually be around to have a water softener ready to install. I'm assuming a delay between a water test and softener install is not an issue.

Thanks for all the advice, its been very helpful.

 

[Brecchi]

Hey guys, got the Watercheck Lite test back. I've posted below.

All I know is, 320 is pretty high! Wondering also if my initial choices of water softener are good ones:

-SoftPro Elite for well water
-Fleck 2510 SXT, well water
-Springwell salt -based (doesn't seem to be well water specific.)

Also thinking of adding an under-sink reverse osmosis unit to top it all off. I have the budget to do this, but hoping to keep it around the 2k range if possible.

Very curious to know everyone's thoughts on the next step, I'm looking forward to getting this all set up.

 

[Brecchi]

That image looks blurry, I'll try again:

 

[Reach4]

Also thinking of adding an under-sink reverse osmosis unit to top it all off. I have the budget to do this, but hoping to keep it around the 2k range if possible.

Very curious to know everyone's thoughts on the next step, I'm looking forward to getting this all set up.

Your water looks good, but you need a softener. 19 grains of hardness. What size is your plumbing to the house as it is ready to tee to the water heater? If 3/4, I would suggest the 5600SXT.

How many people using water in the house regularly?

Note that your outside spigots that you will use to water plants should not go through the softener.

 

[Brecchi]

Your water looks good, but you need a softener. 19 grains of hardness. What size is your plumbing to the house as it is ready to tee to the water heater? If 3/4, I would suggest the 5600SXT.

How many people using water in the house regularly?

Note that your outside spigots that you will use to water plants should not go through the softener.

Not sure about the size of the plumbing - I'm a newbie, is there an easy way to check this?

Appreciate the recommendation of the 5600SXT. I had been reading about the 2510SXT, as it seemed to be highly recommended for well water. Are you aware of any differences between the 2 models?

Right now, we are 2 people in a 3000 sq ft house, but will likely add a kid or 2 (or 3?) in the years to come.

Duly noted regarding the outside spigot - however I was looking forward to having soft water with which to wash the vehicles...

 

[Reach4]

Not sure about the size of the plumbing - I'm a newbie, is there an easy way to check this?

I would encourage you to get a digital caliper. The stainless steel units at Harbor Freight are nice, but the lower resolution plastic ones are adequate. A 3/4 inch copper pipe is 7/8 inch (0.875) and a PVC or steel pipe 3/4 inch pipe is 1.05 inch OD (outside diameter). I would buy some spare #357 batteries via eBay, but a battery comes with the digital caliper initially.

Without a caliper, you can measure the circumference by circling the pipe with a string, lay out the marked string, and divide that number by pi (3.14) to get the diameter.

 

[Brecchi]

I would encourage you to get a digital caliper. The stainless steel units at Harbor Freight are nice, but the lower resolution plastic ones are adequate. A 3/4 inch copper pipe is 7/8 inch (0.875) and a PVC or steel pipe 3/4 inch pipe is 1.05 inch OD (outside diameter). I would buy some spare #357 batteries via eBay, but a battery comes with the digital caliper initially.

Without a caliper, you can measure the circumference by circling the pipe with a string, lay out the marked string, and divide that number by pi (3.14) to get the diameter.

I'll measure using the second method, the plumbing to the house before the tee to the water heater.

 

[Bannerman]

For a 3000 ft2 house, I would anticipate a 1" or larger main line.

Looking at the photos, it appears the copper connections to the water heater may be reduced to 3/4" from 1". The main ball valve beside the water heater on the inlet piping from the well, likely has the piping diameter indicated on it.

Although a 1" connection yoke is available for Fleck 5600, that valve is best suited for 3/4" plumbing. Suggest considering a Fleck 5810 (1") or Fleck 5812 (1.25") based softener.

The 58xx series is Fleck's newest models, and they will support higher flow rates compared to Fleck 5600 which was designed several decades ago when most homes were smaller and equipped with fewer bathrooms and fixtures.

 

[Brecchi]

For a 3000 ft2 house, I would anticipate a 1" or larger main line.

Looking at the photos, it appears the copper connections to the water heater may be reduced to 3/4" from 1". The main ball valve beside the water heater on the inlet piping from the well, likely has the piping diameter indicated on it.

Although a 1" connection yoke is available for Fleck 5600, that valve is best suited for 3/4" plumbing. Suggest considering a Fleck 5810 (1") or Fleck 5812 (1.25") based softener.

The 58xx series is Fleck's newest models, and they will support higher flow rates compared to Fleck 5600 which was designed several decades ago when most homes were smaller and equipped with fewer bathrooms and fixtures.

Thanks for the clarity regarding the different Fleck models.

I just got a hold of the water heater manual (the heater looks brand new, BTW), the instructions say to attach the hot and cold water supply using 3/4 NPT. So I'm assuming you are right in your observation.

I'll likely go ahead and spring for some digital calipers to make sure, as I wasn't very accurate with a sewing tape measure. As you can see, there are a lot of different sized PVC pipes going all over the place, it will be way easier to measure whatever I need with the calipers

Update: I got some calipers and measure the copper pipes leading into the top of the heater at 7/8 and the fittings at the tank at 1 and 3/64 to be exact.

 

[Brecchi]

Hope I'm not beatng a dead horse, but I am reading a lot about how the Fleck 2510 is the way to go for well water, with a fine mesh resin. I'm still trying to get a handle on the advice from Bannerman and Reach 4. Sorry - I'm super ignorant, even while trying to do a lot of my own research.

 

[Bannerman]

While the Fleck 2510 is more capable than the 5600, it too is a several decades-old design. It is often utilized for softeners and filters including AIO systems using 16" and smaller diameter tanks, but is best suited for 3/4" plumbing.

Forum contributor Ditttohead has stated the 5810 valve is currently being revised and he recommended delaying obtaining that valve until revisions are finalized. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/advice-on-new-softener.95659/#post-689259

While Fine Mesh resin can provide slightly increased surface area capacity for iron removal, the smaller resin granules pack more tightly which will cause increased flow restriction through the resin bed, leading to lower flow and pressure to fixtures.

The piping diameter utilized for connecting your water heater is mostly irrelevant as the softener is commonly plumbed within the main plumbing supply line which supplies cold water to the entire home prior to the WH. I had suggested inspecting the ball valve located beside the water heater for sizing information as that appears to be the main shutoff valve after your well pump pressure tank.

 

[Brecchi]

Hey all - sorry to disappear. Covid + pneumonia really set me back for a while.

All this being said, I've been reading over all the advice and its just a bit overwhelming. Probably my fault, I tend to over think and I have no experience here.

I do keep coming back to the Fleck 2510 SXT as being "perfect" for well water:

"One unique feature of the Fleck 2510 water softener is that the piston and timer motor are separate parts. This softener is built for the home, but it is designed like a small commercial unit. We highly recommend the 2510 for well water applications because it is more durable in situations where the water coming into the home has higher mineral content due to not being pre-treated by a city. If you are considering the Fleck 2510 for your own home and you have well water, we would also strongly recommend building your water softener with fine mesh resin. If you would like to know more about the differences between resins, you can read about them here."

I'd love to go ahead and move forward, but still not sure about proper piping, my personal setup, etc.

Basically, you guys know so much more than me, I'm just gonna buy whatever y'all say and take it from there!

Thanks,
Ben

 

[Water Pro]

your hardness isn't bad l. I know Gary recommended a 1 CF, and by his calculations that's correct. but for a home that size with 5 residents, I'd go with a 1.5 CF 48000 grain. the 2510 is an excellent valve, but a 5600 metered unit will work fine. your TDS is a little high. you may want to consider one or two POU RO units. more concerning is your NTU's. turbidity can be associated with harmful bacteria and parasites. have you been tested for total coliform?

 

[Brecchi]

your hardness isn't bad l. I know Gary recommended a 1 CF, and by his calculations that's correct. but for a home that size with 5 residents, I'd go with a 1.5 CF 48000 grain. the 2510 is an excellent valve, but a 5600 metered unit will work fine. your TDS is a little high. you may want to consider one or two POU RO units. more concerning is your NTU's. turbidity can be associated with harmful bacteria and parasites. have you been tested for total coliform?

Hey water pro, thanks for the insight. Aside from the softener, I was looking at a standard RO system for the kitchen sink, maybe also one connected to the fridge dispenser.

Aside from the test I just got and what was required by the bank when we bought the house, I'm not sure about total coliform.

Just FYI, we are using 5 gallon bottles of purified drinking water for our daily drinking needs until I set everything up.

So - can I rest assured with a Fleck 5600 metered valve, a 48,000 grain? Again - just 2 of us here but we plan on adding a couple of kids in the future.

Happy to start ordering if you are able to point me in the right direction as far as websites, accessories, etc. I'll likely have a plumber install for me - I figure its money well spent for a 1 time deal.