CPCV Supply And Lamp Heat

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by KULTULZ, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. KULTULZ

    KULTULZ Jack of all trades, Master of none

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    ROCKVILLE, MD
    Is there a practical guide or code that recommends/states how close CPCV can be placed to recessed lighting? This is in an overhead installation and the lamps will be IC.

    Again, thank you.

    Gary
  2. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Check with the pipe manufacturer, or the plastic pipe institute ( plasticpipe.org). I dont know the spec, but would be very leery of putting plastic near a lamp. Naturally, the pipe is rated for domestic hot water ( 140º max) and is OK for use in a hot attic, where the air temp may approach that number. But I would be very careful about what could be much greater heat from that lamp.
  3. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    CPVC has a maximum service temperature of 200F. The working pressure must be derated as temperature rises:

    http://www.harvel.com/piping-cpvc-derating.asp

    Its melting point is around 212C (Web searches will turn up numbers from 175F and up). I was surprised to see the variation and lack of definitive information.

    I'd lay a piece of pipe up against the can light for a while and see what happens.
  4. KULTULZ

    KULTULZ Jack of all trades, Master of none

    Messages:
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    Location:
    ROCKVILLE, MD
    Thanx Guys!

    This is a condo remodel with a fire rated ceiling and has two tiers. Water supply (1/2" CPCV) is routed through the ceiling(s).

    I have found a fire rated sheet metal box to put the lamp into (to preserve fire integrity). I thought that there may have been a code requirement or thumb of rule for proximity.
  5. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    I'd be sure to see exactly what they mean by "fire rated". Paper, for example, famously autoignites at 451F, above the melting point of CPVC; the box might get hot enough to melt the CPVC, but not start a fire.
  6. KULTULZ

    KULTULZ Jack of all trades, Master of none

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    Location:
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    That is what I am afraid of. The surround box guarantees no fire break through for one hour. What concerns me is the proximity of the light housing causing breakdown of the CPCV and subsequent flooding.

    Here is the enclosure(s)- http://www.ezbarrier.net/content/view/12/26/
  7. Basement_Lurker

    Basement_Lurker One who lurks

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    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    Normally non-IC recessed lighting should be kept atleast 3" away from any combustible material. But since you are using an IC rated box, I don't see why you should have any problems if you put a nice barrier of insulation between the IC box and the tubing; that's assuming you would have a gap of atleast 6" between the tubing and IC box. But that's just my opinion as the same practice is done whenever plastic wiring or tubing is ran close to furnace ducting.
  8. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Just how close to the housing will the pipe(s) be?
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Cpvc

    I would err on the cautious side and not put it near the light, regardless of any minimum dimension. A change in conditions of any kind, such as the pipe being drained while the light is on and you could be looking at a damage liability claim.
  10. KULTULZ

    KULTULZ Jack of all trades, Master of none

    Messages:
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    Location:
    ROCKVILLE, MD
    The IC lamp will actually be placed in a sheet metal box (see referring URL above for details) and will not be in open air. I have to re-measure but I believe final installation will be at least six inches and there will be insulation placed between this box and the tubes.

    This ceiling has trusses to hold the upstairs floor and fire rated sheet rock is attached to galv. steel channels to make the lower ceiling. As I understand, IC rated lamps call for a lower wattage bulb and will shut itself off if a pre-determined temperature is reached.

    Let me see how far I can mount the lamp(s) from one truss and I will get back. Would I be better off asking this in the electrical forum or are most of you guys well versed in both (which I would imagine will be the case)?

    Again, thank you.

    Gary
  11. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Location:
    San Diego
    There are good electricians here. I am anxious to here if the electric code has any specs about where you can put a fixture with respect to a pipe. The standard off the cuff reply would be that tradesmen "have no respect" for the other guys stuff! Plumbers, electricians, and HVAC installers always compete for real estate on new contstruction!
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,651
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    pipe

    The "standard" separation is usually 1", but that does not take into consideration any special requirements for a specific pipe type. Any specific requirements are the responsibility of the installing mechanic. Electricians know wires, not water pipes.
  13. KULTULZ

    KULTULZ Jack of all trades, Master of none

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    I think I have found my answer. The TENMAT protection cover.

    It simply covers the can. That and a respectable distance/insulation should do it I would think. Thoughts?

    Attached Files:

  14. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    I think anything that would provide separation of the light fixture and pipe would be sufficient. The TENMAT cover would do that, and additionally seals up the ceiling penetration in the event of a fire above. Should do the trick. I'll duct-tape a thermometer and a piece of CPVC to one of my IC/AT can lights this weekend and let you know what happens.
  15. KULTULZ

    KULTULZ Jack of all trades, Master of none

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Appreciated!
  16. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Central Florida
    The envelope, please...

    Halo 6" IT/AC can with a 65W flood at full brightness for two hours, attic ambient temperature 121F, can packed in rock wool insulation. Can temperature measured at top of cylindrical portion with a lab thermometer stuffed between the can and the insulation: 152F. I laid a short piece of CPVC on top of the can and held it down with a 1lb lead weight. Both the CPV and the lead were warm (duh!). CPVC could be hand held, no sign of any melting, distortion, etc.

    Disclaimer: your mileage may vary.
  17. KULTULZ

    KULTULZ Jack of all trades, Master of none

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    That is appreciated. I think with the proper distance and placing of insulation, there should be little damaging heat build up.
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