Cost for installing new toilet, sink and tub/shower?

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Palladio

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I live in NYC, and I know that the cost of living is high here for everyone.

However I was a bit shocked by the bid I just got for my bathroom rehab.

I was quoted the following:

(Note that all prep, demolition, debris removal and fixtures are supplied by others. This is just to show up and do the plumbing part).

Install new sink and toilet in existing locations $1650.

Additional charge to replace lead bend for toilet if it can't be extended $695

Install new lead pan in 3'x3' shower $2195

Then if I want to swap the position of the toilet and tub, which means moving the branch lines and waste lines about five feet there is an additional charge of $15300


Does this bid make sense, even in NYC? I can't imagine that swapping out the sink, toilet and shower pan is more than a days' work, and that alone is nearly $4000.
 
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hj

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If you get three price quotes and they are all in the same ballpark, then it makes no difference what you or I think, it is what you will pay in that area. Do you have elevators in your building? Are the floors concrete? Job site conditions will have an immense effect on the prices quoted. One plumber in NYC used to brag how he charged $2,000.00 for a four hour job, and he may have been the lowest priced one bidding on the job.
 

Palladio

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If you get three price quotes and they are all in the same ballpark, then it makes no difference what you or I think, it is what you will pay in that area. Do you have elevators in your building? Are the floors concrete? Job site conditions will have an immense effect on the prices quoted. One plumber in NYC used to brag how he charged $2,000.00 for a four hour job, and he may have been the lowest priced one bidding on the job.

I definitely need to get some more bids.

The building has an elevator. It's a 1930's building. As far as I know the floors are concrete and the wall substrate is terracotta brick. Water supply pipes to be extended are in the wall and have to be run down the same wall an additional 36". The tub drain will be going exactly where the toilet drain is currently located and the toilet is going over where the tub drain is. What I don't know is the size of the waste lines, and whether or not these can just be swapped. As I understand it, the toilet generally requires a larger diameter waste line than the tub, right?
 

Billy_Bob

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I've not done work in NYC, but have done some work in downtown areas with highrises. It can be a royal time wasting pain!

Traffic can be a nightmare depending on time of day, no parking, need to park quite a distance away, parking can cost a young fortune, etc.

Then if you need a part which is not on your truck, it can again take quite awhile to go get that part and return. This can shoot the heck out of half a day depending on traffic.

Then with highrises, if you need to get into a building mechanical room, you need to find someone with a key. As a rule that person will not be there when you need the key. More wasted time.

In general I would say I could do two jobs in the time it takes me to do one job in a downtown highrise area.
 

Palladio

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I just can't imagine how connecting a new toilet and sink in already existing locations, and then installing a 3X3 shower pan (when all the demo/removal of existing tile is done by others) could possibly take more than one day.

I also can't imagine that extending a hot and cold water pipe by 36" and moving two drain locations could take more than 2-3 days.

By my math, this guy is charging $4000 per day or about $600 per hour.

Maybe it's time I go to plumbing school....
 

Jimbo

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I once had a couple of customers in a 20 story condo over at the beach in La Jolla. (Today, there is a 30 foot maximum building heigth limit within several miles of the coast, but they snuck that one in! )

Tradesmen couldn't use the lobby elevator. Had to use the lower level service elevator, which was slower than dirt, and the maids usually had it bogarded, and would jam the door open to wait for their pals. They had a gestapo-like guard at the entrance to the service area. You had to bribe them to even let you back a truck up close to unload. You could not park or leave the truck for even a minute. Street parking was 2 hour limit on the meters. That building was a royal pain to work in, and the people who lived there...who forutnately were loaded., just knew they had to pay through the nose for any service work.
 

Palladio

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I once had a couple of customers in a 20 story condo over at the beach in La Jolla. (Today, there is a 30 foot maximum building heigth limit within several miles of the coast, but they snuck that one in! )

Tradesmen couldn't use the lobby elevator. Had to use the lower level service elevator, which was slower than dirt, and the maids usually had it bogarded, and would jam the door open to wait for their pals. They had a gestapo-like guard at the entrance to the service area. You had to bribe them to even let you back a truck up close to unload. You could not park or leave the truck for even a minute. Street parking was 2 hour limit on the meters. That building was a royal pain to work in, and the people who lived there...who forutnately were loaded., just knew they had to pay through the nose for any service work.

I used to live in La Jolla and I think I know the building you're talking about.

My building has a service elevator with a full time attendant. It is not hard to gain access to my apartment.

Part of my problem is that I live in a very nice building. I am probably perceived to be "loaded" (and I'm sure many of my neighbors are). I bought my place years ago when things were cheaper, and I have changed careers to a far less lucrative one that is more satisfying. I'd bet I make less than this plumber. Still I wouldn't doubt if he was doubling his price, just because of my address.

This kind of thing pisses me off. I used to own my own business and I sure as hell didn't upcharge people based on my perception of their income. To many this may be capitalism but to me it's just plain unethical.
 

hj

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You are describing a job that is well outside the realm of "conventional construction" and it will cost more. You cannot just "swap" the toilet and anything else. And because of the piping, trying to swap them can lead to interesting job difficulties as you try to maneuver one pipe over, under, or around the other one.
 

Jadnashua

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Unless it is required, I would never install a lead pan. This is typically installed flat on the floor which then acts like a big cesspool. The tile does NOT keep water out of the areas underneath the tile, it only slows it down. By code, the waterproof layer MUST be sloped, and the drain should have weep holes to allow moisture to escape below the layer of the tile. The waterproof liner IS the part that should be sloped (as well as the tile on top of the mixture. There a lots of ways to make a good quality shower, but a lead pan flat on the floor is not one of them, even if it doesn't leak. Check out www.johnbridge.com to see the proper way to build a shower...a lead pan insn't one of them! Unless it is installed on a sloped bed (rarely done), it won't meet the national codes.

Moving fixtures, especially if they need to be changed in size can be fairly labor intensive, and, if you don't have access from below, doubly hard - then if it is poured concrete, even harder.

It will likely take at least a couple of days, and maybe much longer to get what you want done.
 

Palladio

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Unless it is required, I would never install a lead pan. This is typically installed flat on the floor which then acts like a big cesspool. The tile does NOT keep water out of the areas underneath the tile, it only slows it down. By code, the waterproof layer MUST be sloped, and the drain should have weep holes to allow moisture to escape below the layer of the tile. The waterproof liner IS the part that should be sloped (as well as the tile on top of the mixture. There a lots of ways to make a good quality shower, but a lead pan flat on the floor is not one of them, even if it doesn't leak. Check out www.johnbridge.com to see the proper way to build a shower...a lead pan insn't one of them! Unless it is installed on a sloped bed (rarely done), it won't meet the national codes.

Moving fixtures, especially if they need to be changed in size can be fairly labor intensive, and, if you don't have access from below, doubly hard - then if it is poured concrete, even harder.

It will likely take at least a couple of days, and maybe much longer to get what you want done.

I hear you. But please note that the sink and toilet installation are in existing locations. He will be removing one sink with legs (no cabinet) and simply connecting the new one in the same locations with the exact same drain and faucets. He doesn't even have to deliver the new sink or remove the old one, that is paid for by another contract. Same with the toilet. He is disconnecting one and hooking up the other one in the same place. Just for that is $1500.

When I talked about swapping locations, his bid was $16,000, plus the original cost of $1500 to install a sink and toilet.

I need to learn more about the shower pan issue. The tilesetter was to do all the demo so the plumber would have clean slate to replace the existing 3x3 lead pan.

To clarify things, when we're talking about swapping the toilet and tub locations, installing the shower pan, and installing a new sink and toilet, the bid was over $20,000 in labor. Tell me if I'm wrong, but even with the high rise and concrete floor issues, can that really take more than one week? $20,000 is a lot of money for a week of labor.
 
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Lancaster

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There is nothing unethical here.The contractor is asked for a bid,he provides you with same.Now its up to you to accept or reject.Obviously you think its excessive.Do what you have to do,which as you already said,get more bids.Its how the contracting business works,often at a much much higher level.It really has little to do with how much you think the job should cost.
 

Redwood

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Tradesmen couldn't use the lobby elevator. Had to use the lower level service elevator, which was slower than dirt, and the maids usually had it bogarded, and would jam the door open to wait for their pals. They had a gestapo-like guard at the entrance to the service area. You had to bribe them to even let you back a truck up close to unload. You could not park or leave the truck for even a minute. Street parking was 2 hour limit on the meters.

I was once sent to a hotel that was like that! The dispatcher called me an hour later wondering when I would get there... I said their guy wouldn't let me park, I went home. My plumbing works!

You couldn't pay me enough to work in NYC! Time is money!
 

Billy_Bob

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...Part of my problem is that I live in a very nice building. I am probably perceived to be "loaded" (and I'm sure many of my neighbors are). I bought my place years ago when things were cheaper, and I have changed careers to a far less lucrative one that is more satisfying. I'd bet I make less than this plumber. Still I wouldn't doubt if he was doubling his price, just because of my address...

Actually I have had situations where I could charge more or less as I pleased.

The customer being "loaded" had nothing to do with the situations where I charged more. Sometimes they would be "loaded" and I would charge nothing if it was something simple.

It all has to do with attitude. Some wealthy people are quite friendly, will offer me a glass of water, maybe a snack. Others can be a royal pain. Nasty, take shoes off before entering home, use service entrance, complain about anything and everything, etc.

Really it has nothing to do with the perceived wealth of the customer. It is that some customers I look forward to going to - others I dread. Those I dread going to get charged higher prices (rich, poor, middle class, whatever.)

Anyway that is just me. (You get more with a carrot than a stick!)
 

Palladio

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Actually I have had situations where I could charge more or less as I pleased.

The customer being "loaded" had nothing to do with the situations where I charged more. Sometimes they would be "loaded" and I would charge nothing if it was something simple.

It all has to do with attitude. Some wealthy people are quite friendly, will offer me a glass of water, maybe a snack. Others can be a royal pain. Nasty, take shoes off before entering home, use service entrance, complain about anything and everything, etc.

Really it has nothing to do with the perceived wealth of the customer. It is that some customers I look forward to going to - others I dread. Those I dread going to get charged higher prices (rich, poor, middle class, whatever.)

Anyway that is just me. (You get more with a carrot than a stick!)

That I totally understand and agree with, and I can assure you I treat anyone who crosses my threshold with respect.

There was a funny article in the New York Times a week or so ago about contractors needing psychological therapy after dealing with nasty clients. One guy got really frustrated with clients not allowing his guys to use the bathroom. So now his standard contract stipulates that if on site bathroom access is not provided, a porta potty will be installed on the front lawn for the viewing pleasure of the neighbors.
 

Jimbo

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I used to live in La Jolla and I think I know the building you're talking about. Coast Blvd right on the Ocean.

My building has a service elevator with a full time attendant. It is not hard to gain access to my apartment. As I said, trades people not allowed in the lobby.

Part of my problem is that I live in a very nice building. I am probably perceived to be "loaded" (and I'm sure many of my neighbors are). I bought my place years ago when things were cheaper, and I have changed careers to a far less lucrative one that is more satisfying. I'd bet I make less than this plumber. Still I wouldn't doubt if he was doubling his price, just because of my address.

This kind of thing pisses me off. I used to own my own business and I sure as hell didn't upcharge people based on my perception of their income. To many this may be capitalism but to me it's just plain unethical.

I didn't charge extra because they were loaded. They had to pay more for a given job because of the extra time caused by where the live.
 
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