Cloudy water after heavier than normal use

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Mikeazo

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Bought a home with well water almost 2 years ago. Every once in awhile the water will look cloudy for a day or two. We have a whole house filter (paper cartridge, 50 micron) and a water softener (been putting rust removing salt in it the whole time). I kept trying to figure out what triggered the cloudy water, but couldn't ever quite figure it out. This last week I was over seeding the lawn. The water had been clear for at least a few weeks (can't remember exactly when it was last cloudy). I watered after putting the seed down. After that was done, I came in and the water was cloudy. Next morning, it was clear again. The day after that, I ran the sprinkler again on the lawn and the water turned cloudy again. Again, it cleared up in a day or two.

I had been planning on shocking the well for a few months (water had a sulfur smell) and finally got my opportunity yesterday. Put in the bleach and recirculated until I smelled the bleach. Opened up the indoor faucets until they smelled of bleach. The water that ran through was all clear. Let it sit for almost 24 hours. This afternoon I put the hose in the gutter and ran it. After about 30 min the water was cloudy again. I kept pumping it for probably another hour and a half (2 hours total). It never really cleared up. I went and watched the gauge on the pressure tank while the hose was running and the pump never turned off. When I finally turned off the hose, the tank filled up just fine. I then changed the paper filter (which actually sits right after the pressure tank and even before the hose pipes) and there was a nice build-up of what I'm assuming is mud (very dark in color, not very gritty). Inside the house the cloudyness is not near as bad as at the hose (I'm sure thanks to the softener).

In the past I've filled up cups inside when it has been cloudy to see if it separates. It doesn't. I've added a small amount of bleach to the cup to see what that does. Nothing. I've added pool metal remover to the cup. Nothing happens. I've even boiled the water and nothing happens (no separation).

Once when I changed the paper filter, I turned off the power to the pump and hooked up a hose to the connection that is right after the pressure tank (but before the paper filter) and ran all the water out. Some small, dark black gravel looking stuff came out right at the end. I turned on the pump and let that gravel flush out.

What would you all recommend I do now? I can get someone out here to look at it. I'm not super familiar with wells. What sorts of things should I ask them (tests, etc)? What would you have done if it were your well? Another option I have been considering is putting a better filter on (say a 5 micron). What else should I consider?

The well is 180ft deep. The pump sits at 80 feet. It is a 6" casing. The pump is 1/2 hp. I believe it is 2 wire.
 

Wet_Boots

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You may have a low-producing well with a buildup of very fine silt, or whatever it gets called, on the well casing. As long as usage is limited, the water level remains nearly constant, and you see no cloudiness. With heavier usage, the water level can drop, and the buildup on the casing is disturbed, and the water clouds up.
 

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I kept trying to figure out what triggered the cloudy water, but couldn't ever quite figure it out. This last week I was over seeding the lawn. The water had been clear for at least a few weeks (can't remember exactly when it was last cloudy). I watered after putting the seed down. After that was done, I came in and the water was cloudy. Next morning, it was clear again. The day after that, I ran the sprinkler again on the lawn and the water turned cloudy again. Again, it cleared up in a day or two.

I would be concerned that the well is not properly sealed. If it gets cloudy every time you water the yard or maybe after a rain, the runoff maybe getting back down the well which can cause a lot of problems.
 

Mikeazo

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I appreciate the info. I don't really notice it happening when it rains, and I was watering the back lawn while the well is drilled in the front.

Now that it is winter I have a little more info to report. We continue to get cloudy water after heavy use. For example, when we wash a number of loads of laundry all in a row. We had heavy snow and rain a week ago and that didn't seem to affect the water. Only when we did a few (3 to 4) loads of laundry in a row (and probably ran the dishwasher). It pretty much clears up though in a day or two if we don't have heavy use. I put a 5 micron filter cartridge in our whole house filter and we still get the cloudy water in the house. When we get through the holidays I plan to get a pro out here to take a look, but any thoughts you all have would be greatly appreciated.
 

LLigetfa

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The well is 180ft deep. The pump sits at 80 feet. It is a 6" casing. The pump is 1/2 hp. I believe it is 2 wire.

What more do you know about the well? Recovery rate? rock bore or screened casing?

Maybe the well just needs to be developed. You might try pumping it hard by running several spigots at once and run it for a few days to see if it clears up.
 

Mikeazo

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What more do you know about the well? Recovery rate? rock bore or screened casing?

Maybe the well just needs to be developed. You might try pumping it hard by running several spigots at once and run it for a few days to see if it clears up.

Sorry, I don't have any other info. I tried to request the well log from the county and they didn't have it. When we bought the house we had the quantity and quality tested. Quality passed fine (though it was pumping out this cloudy water). For quantity they left it running from a spigot for a few hours. I forget the exact rate we got, but it was plenty of water. Since it was cloudy, I had a local well company who was highly recommended come take a look before we closed. They brought in some equipment to clean the well and casing. I don't know exactly what they did. They said it was a very good well and that I could pump it for days and not run out of water. They said after the cleaning that it should clear up. It did, but the problem came back a few months after closing.

I'll try pumping it and see what happens. The only problem with that is whoever installed the whole house filter put it before the spigots and there is no bypass. Can I just take the cartridge out and put the cover on w/o a cartridge?
 

LLigetfa

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Can I just take the cartridge out and put the cover on w/o a cartridge?

Yes. The filter could restrict the GPM otherwise.

Quantity testing usually requires that more than one spigot be run and the level in the well monitored.

If over-pumping the well doesn't clear it up, you may need to restrict the flow rate with a dole valve. My well has an issue with turbidity if I draw it too hard. I did develop it by over-pumping and managed to increase the yield considerably but the old pump I was using at the time to develop it could not move more than my current pump can so I still need to keep the flow restricted. I was planning on doing more work on my well this past Summer but life got in the way. For sure next Summer I will have to address it.
 

Mikeazo

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Thought I'd throw another piece of info out there. I doubt this will make much of a difference. When I was doing some testing a while back I noticed that the pump turns on at 50psi and turns off at 75psi. From what I saw online that was higher than I expected. Also, a while back I emptied the pressure tank and used the car tire gauge to measure the pressure and it was low. I can't remember the exact numbers. I doubt this could be the cause of my problems, but you all are a lot smarter than me so I thought I'd pass the info along.
 

LLigetfa

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50-75 PSI is a little higher than usual and could result in more pump cycling due to less drawdown capacity from your bladder tank. http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/tanksizing_12.html gives a comparison. However, if 75 PSI is on the edge of the pump curve, it can reduce cycling provided the draw is high enough.

Also, insufficient air precharge on the bladder reduces drawdown. It can also cause stress on the bladder from stretching it. For a 50 PSI cut-in, the precharge should be around 48 PSI.

If/when a pump cycles on/off frequently, it can sometimes churn up the well. I'm not saying that is what is happening now, just that it has happened to some folk.
 

Reach4

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I suggest you fill a clear 1 liter/quart water bottle with your cloudy water. Fill the water to the top, and try to exclude any air bubble with the cap tightened. Let it sit untouched on a bright window sill for a week or more. Have the bottle sitting half on white paper, and half on dark filter for contrast. Does the water stay cloudy? Does somethings settle out? Does a bubble form at the top?

Regarding filters, do not use paper (cellulose) filters on a non-chlorinated well. Instead, use polypropylene. Did your filter clog?

Rather than a pleated filter, I suggest a spun or wound filter. I am using a PENTEK-DGD-5005-20 dual gradient (50 and 5 micron) spun polypropylene element in series with a wound PENTEK-WP1BB20P. That last one is marked 1 micron. Those follow my Centaur carbon backwashing filter (which takes out all of the sulfur, 4.5 ppm iron, and whatever), so the filter elements looked like they would be good for a few more years when I changed them after 12.5 months.
 

Mikeazo

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Wanted to post an update to this. I ended up deciding to call in a professional in to look at it. The guy came out the other day to check things out. Went straight to the toilet to have a look in the tank. There was build up on the inside of the tank (not surprising). It is dark in color and very fine. Mud, I guess.

Anyways, he wants to clean the well with compressed air. I've been reading about that online, sounds like a good option. They are coming today, so I'll post an update later. He said if that doesn't clear it up, we should probably have a new well drilled. Any thoughts?

I should mention that before we bought the house, the water was cloudy and so we asked the seller to have it cleaned, as recommended by a highly-recommended well professional that we consulted with. They hired the same person who consulted with. The invoice said "clean/surge/bail" which I understand to be different than the compressed air method. This guy we consulted with said after the cleaning that things should clear up and we would be good to go. He said the well was a very good well. So a bailing just over 2 years ago. Now we are trying the compressed air method which the current well guy says he has found to be more effective than bailing in this area.

If the compressed air method doesn't do the trick, I am willing to try better filtration before drilling a new well. I recently found a 1 micron (or maybe .5 micron) filter that will work in our filter housing. If that works, I could put in 2 filters in series. The 5 micron filter didn't clear things up, but maybe the 1 micron will.
 

Mikeazo

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I suggest you fill a clear 1 liter/quart water bottle with your cloudy water. Fill the water to the top, and try to exclude any air bubble with the cap tightened. Let it sit untouched on a bright window sill for a week or more. Have the bottle sitting half on white paper, and half on dark filter for contrast. Does the water stay cloudy? Does somethings settle out? Does a bubble form at the top?

Regarding filters, do not use paper (cellulose) filters on a non-chlorinated well. Instead, use polypropylene. Did your filter clog?

Rather than a pleated filter, I suggest a spun or wound filter. I am using a PENTEK-DGD-5005-20 dual gradient (50 and 5 micron) spun polypropylene element in series with a wound PENTEK-WP1BB20P. That last one is marked 1 micron. Those follow my Centaur carbon backwashing filter (which takes out all of the sulfur, 4.5 ppm iron, and whatever), so the filter elements looked like they would be good for a few more years when I changed them after 12.5 months.

For some reason I didn't see your post until now.

In the past I had filled up a glass with water and let it sit for a week or two with no noticeable change in cloudiness. There was some minor settling of sediment in the bottom, but not a lot. I didn't do the bottle, so I don't know if a bubble formed, but I think there may have been some air bubbles in the glass when I first filled it up. I'll give the bottle a try.

Regarding filters, I have tried many different types of filters: paper, carbon, and the 5 micron one. All the filters would eventually clog.
 

Reach4

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Anyways, he wants to clean the well with compressed air. I've been reading about that online, sounds like a good option. They are coming today, so I'll post an update later. He said if that doesn't clear it up, we should probably have a new well drilled. Any thoughts?

I should mention that before we bought the house, the water was cloudy and so we asked the seller to have it cleaned, as recommended by a highly-recommended well professional that we consulted with. They hired the same person who consulted with. The invoice said "clean/surge/bail" which I understand to be different than the compressed air method. This guy we consulted with said after the cleaning that things should clear up and we would be good to go. He said the well was a very good well. So a bailing just over 2 years ago. Now we are trying the compressed air method which the current well guy says he has found to be more effective than bailing in this area.

If the compressed air method doesn't do the trick, I am willing to try better filtration before drilling a new well. I recently found a 1 micron (or maybe .5 micron) filter that will work in our filter housing. If that works, I could put in 2 filters in series. The 5 micron filter didn't clear things up, but maybe the 1 micron will.
Pictures! We will want to hear all about it.

Regarding filters, bigger is better. If you put a backwashing filter at the front end that will deal with sulfur, it would probably double up by doing mechanical filtering too.

I have a Centaur Carbon filter at my front end. I did that for sulfur and iron. I follow that with the Big Blue filters, but those elements looked practically new after 13 months.
 

LLigetfa

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They hired the same person who consulted with. The invoice said "clean/surge/bail" which I understand to be different than the compressed air method.

A surge block is a two-way process that will stir up the formation and it is often used to motivate fines to increase yield. Over-pumping is a less aggressive one-way process intended to motivate the fines leaving behind a coarser formation that then acts as a filter. The intention with over-pumping is to pump at a higher GPM than the well would ever be drawn afterwards.

Air-lifting is one way of over-pumping. As long as the well produces enough GPM and the formation has enough coarseness to develop into a filter, then it could improve the well. What you may need to do however is to limit the draw using a dole valve if the formation is not stable.

A backwashing filter can be quite effective to remove turbidity provided there is sufficient GPM to properly backwash. A pleated or spun element filter would need frequent replacement and may reduce the GPM.
 

Mikeazo

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Thanks for the info.

Which end of the system does the dole valve go, at the pump or in the house by the tank?


Had to move the cleaning to tomorrow. I'll see if I can get pics to please the masses :)
I also plan on discussing dole valves.
 

Reach4

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Thanks for the info.

Which end of the system does the dole valve go, at the pump or in the house by the tank?
It goes up top before the pressure switch. It would be interesting to have a high pressure gauge before the valve, but that does not seem to be a common thing to do.
 

Mikeazo

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After about 30, 40 minutes of pushing air in, their hose clogged. Said they had never had a hose clog before. Before that happened, I got this pic.

IMG_20140228_124548.jpg

Took a few others, but they were all about the same. After they got the hose cleared out, they pushed it back in, but not quite as deep (before he said they were almost at the bottom which is 190 feet). They were then at around 130 feet and the water didn't look near as bad as when they were further down. Didn't get a pic though. I had to go back to work, so I couldn't stay. More to come.
 

Mikeazo

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Here is a picture of the damage around the well. Seems like an awful lot of gravel but maybe that is to be expected. Not looking forward to cleaning it up :) At least I don't have to mow yet.

IMG_20140228_164029.jpg

In the end they ran the air for about an hour maybe an hour and 15 min. Then put the pump back in and started pumping. Ran that for about 45 min to an hour. At that point the water that it was pumping up was cloudy (about like we normally see). They said they didn't think it would get any better and packed up and left. Said they would discuss what happened with the owner and see if there was a filtration option or if we needed to drill a new well.

To me it didn't seem like they were really hear long enough, but I am no expert. Thoughts?

I plan on discussing the dole valve with the owner and getting his thoughts.
 

Reach4

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That gravel is the big stuff. I expect the farther you get from the well head, the finer the ejected material is.

I wonder if it would make sense to put a 4-inch or 4.5-inch casing, inside of the 6, all of the way to the bottom. With gravel that size coming out, I doubt that the 6 inch casing goes all of the way down, or it has huge slots. I am just an observer.
 

LLigetfa

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With gravel like that, either the seal failed miserably and it is washing into the rock bore, or there is no rock bore at all and it's a mud well. There was probably no value in removing that gravel from the well. On my well the driller deliberately dumped coarse gravel down the well to hold back the mud.

Somewhere there should be a record on file that describes the well and the formation.
 
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