Centripro vs Franklin motor

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Odysseus99

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I guess, from what I've read, that the Franklin motors are still highly regarded. Gould has a good reputation as well so the Centripro motors must be well made as well.

I usually lean toward spending a bit extra now for longevity down the road. I want to go as long as possible before I have to pull this pump.

Am I better off with Franklin?

400' well, 300 static level, 350 foot total dynamic head, very clean water, going to get a 1hp 7gpm.

Thanks again for tolerating my newbie questions. I wanna do it right once, not twice.
 

Craigpump

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Grundfos wet end and a Franklin motor would be my first choice, but you can't buy them like that anymore so you to build em.
 

Odysseus99

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Thanks Texas and Craigpump.

Is putting together separately purchased pump and motor an easy thing to do? Are the mechanical connections between pump and motor standardized so they all fit each other? I've never actually seen a pump or motor, just pictures. I don't want to rely on 'aftermarket adapter fittings' or something like that. Seems like they should be standardized, but when company A doesn't like company B sometimes the happy dream of standardized interconnection falls by the wayside. Something tells me Apple and Android phones will never interface as sweetly as say, peas in a pod.

They made to fit each other easily?
 

Valveman

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All submersibles that I know of now have what is called Nema standard connections. Same spine and stick up on the shaft and the same 4 bolt pattern connection. Franklin, Gould, Grundfos, Sta-Rite, and all the others I know of will interchange easily with no special adapters.
 

Odysseus99

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Thanks guys. It makes perfect sense that the connection should be standard, but we don't live in a perfect world, so I wanted to verify.

I'm leaning toward a Franklin 1hp 2 wire motor and Grunfos 7gpm pump.

Going to forego aluminum wire and go with #8 copper all 750 feet from pump to generator.

Now I have to decide if I'm going to remove the backflow valve I already put on the pitless adapter and have only one backflow at the pump, on advice from another thread. Decisions decisions.
 

Reach4

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Going to forego aluminum wire and go with #8 copper all 750 feet from pump to generator.
Why?

And even if you are going to use #8 all of the way, you are not planning to use the same kind of wire the whole way, are you? Are you planning to use stranded submersible pump wire down the hole, or solid? I would think stranded would be better, but I see reputable places sell both. I have not run across discussions about that choice.

I understand that there are code considerations, but think about the fact that your new pump is nominal 230 volt, but your AC power is probably nominal 240 volt... in case that matters to you. If you look at it as voltage-to-the-pump problem, that would be relevant.

And finally, in your studies, did you read the "Two or More Different Cable Sizes Can Be Used" section the AIM manual.
 

Craigpump

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I wouldn't use aluminum cable either.

We use only Regency flat, parallel stranded cable up to #8, then we use twisted stranded. Stranded wire is easier to handle, seems to lay flatter against the pipe and I've been told, conducts the current more efficiently. I'm not sure what the cost difference is, but we have no problems selling it.

How big is the generator?
 

Odysseus99

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Hi Reach-

Thanks for the input. I planned to use aluminum from well head to power source to save money, then use copper in the hole. Aluminum in the hole seems like a bad idea on the long term just because aluminum is more corrosive and in the moist environment will not last as long as copper. Also the motor leads will be copper, so special copper/alu connectors would be required below water. Will shrink insulation fit over the special fittings? Don't know.

If I use copper in the hole and aluminum above I have to get special connectors there, which are expensive. Not too much, but in the end I only save $100 or so using aluminum. So I decided all copper to keep it simple.

Planned to use type USE wire in the hole, XHHW-2 in the conduit above to the power source. Do codes require use of a particular type of wire insulation in the well?

Any reason why solid is better than stranded for pump wire?

The pump wire I've seen for sale on the web is much more expensive than just buying common USE. And, it appears to be plain thhw! I'm not putting thhw in my well casing, that's for sure.

At first I will power the pump with a 5000 watt typical construction generator, claims to be 240 volt. If the motor is 230 volt, is this a problem?

Later it will power off the utility.

In short, what are the important deciding factors in choosing pump wire?

Found the AIM manual. Will read.

Thanks for your time.
 
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Craigpump

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Stranded is better than solid wire.

Why try to reinvent the wheel? We already know that pump cable is more than equal to the task, so why try to find a substitute?
 

Odysseus99

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I see your point Craigpump. But, I've heard of abrasion problems with wire in the well when, over time, motor torque rubs the wire in a given location and eventually wears thru the insulation. Type TH insulation is the thinnest ( and cheapest) of all wire insulation types. So, if I can get a better quality wire insulation type for less money, that's the only reason I'd reinvent the wheel. I think what the pump cable suppliers offer is convenience. If I buy my own #8USE I will have to twist it together along 400 feet. Most pump installers don't want to bother with that to save $100 or less. I'm buying a lot of other wire for other parts of the project at the same time, here's a way to lower the project cost.

Reach- I read the section in the AIM manual on using two different wire sizes. They present that as a means of dealing with the problem of having existing wire from source to the well head that's now too small when you upsize the pump. By upsizing the new wire down the well you keep total circuit voltage drop from getting too low. But why do this in a new installation? Valveman suggested using a smaller wire into the hole to intentionally drop the voltage for a softer start. As a newbie I'm wary of that, because I wonder what the long term effects on the motor might be of always running with voltage drop toward the lower range of what is 'tolerable'. But, if supply is 240v, and the motor is rated at 230v, does it make sense to design the system to deliver 230 to the motor? This is new stuff for me-

With this line of reasoning, though, maybe I should downsize my wire a bit. I'm 750 feet from pump to power with a 1hp motor. #10 wire is good for 650 feet with 1hp according to the chart. #8 wire is good to 950 ft. If I use the #10, I'll drop voltage a bit. Not sure how much, I can calc that. But if it drops the voltage from 240 to 230, maybe that's better for the motor. Thoughts?
 
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Reach4

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I read the section in the AIM manual on using two different wire sizes. They present that as a means of dealing with the problem of having existing wire from source to the well head that's now too small when you upsize the pump. By upsizing the new wire down the well you keep total circuit voltage drop from getting too low. But why do this in a new installation? Valveman suggested using a smaller wire into the hole to intentionally drop the voltage for a softer start.
The point was to use a smaller expensive flexible underwater well cable where the flex and underwater qualities were useful and to use a cheaper, maybe solid, UF for the underground haul. Their example of existing wire was bigger wire down the well. But the calculation technique could be useful for the other way. I think that calculation a total resistance would have been easier to understand.

Your concern that "motor might be of always running with voltage drop toward the lower range of what is 'tolerable'.". Tolerable to what? The motor or the electrical code's concern for the wire? I don't think that the AIM chart does not stop where it does for the pump but rather for a general percent of how much drop would be allowed.

Given that you are using a generator, which I did not pick up on initially, possibly partly because your story is spread over many threads, maybe you want to pay more attention to power efficiency. Power efficiency is a reason to use bigger wire and to use 3 wire with a box that has a run capacitor. That box can be at the well head. So the UF would be run the same as if the pump were 2 wire, but the control box changes that to 3 wire at the well.
 

Texas Wellman

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Submersible pump cable is not the same as thhn or whatever other wire you're looking at. If you're concerned about abrasion use jacketed submersible wire. It has an extra layer of protection.
 

Craigpump

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We use TA48 style torque arrestors to help control the torque action from the pumps. On a 1hp, we'd use 5, two on top of the pump then one at 400, 300 & 200.

Another reason for using softer flat wire is that it lays against the pipe better. I hate UF wire......Hard to strip, hard to pull through conduit....I've seen DIY'rs run it down hole thinking they were smarter than pump guys. The joke was on them when the wire chaffed through because they couldn't get it to lay against the drop pipe.
 

Odysseus99

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Good comments all- I think I'll read the AIM manual carefully, and think about it for a while. Lots of good info from you guys to keep me busy.
 
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