CentriPro/Goulds 1AS15 Continous Flow Controller error need help please

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Hrd2Fnd

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Hello,

New to forum, and in need of help from the experts in the field. We've been without running water now for a week, and the better half and kids have had enough of roughing it. As $$$ is currently tight, I am hoping the kind members of this forum might be able to help me out.

2 years back I had installed a CentriPro/Goulds continues flow submersible pump controller model 1AS15. Last Wednesday, our well decided to stop working. In looking at the controller, and having read the manual (below link), I see that the error is for a faulty sensor (3 flashes). http://www.aquascience.net/resource/pdf/propak-install-maintenance.pdf

Is there more than 1 sensor in the controller, and if so how can I tell which sensor it would be referring to, and what steps would I need to take to get this replaced? I also see that there is a place that says Jumper to Run. (pg6 figure 3 bottom right), would it be a good idea to use this for short term fix and what damage would it cause or should be on the lookout for?

I know being new to the forum is going to be tough to get help, but we are at the point know of not knowing what else to do. I am technically inclined when it comes to computers but with the right directions and patience, I hope to get the water flowing again.

The family and I really appreciate any help you can provide.


Respectfully,

Hrd
 
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Valveman

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Only 2 years old and already out of water? You can see why I don’t like Variable Speed Controlled pumps (VFD). If you were my customer I would be getting a mad phone call this morning. Then you would be even more angry if I told you they changed the warranty from 3 years to 1 year, which happens a lot with those VFD’s. That link shows there is still a 3 year warranty on “the controller”. I doubt that the warranty applies to the “sensor” or “pressure transducer” as it is called, since it is not a part of the controller. You should contact the people you bought it from and see if you can get a replacement “transducer” under warranty.

Usually the company will give you a transducer or even warranty the controller during the warranty period. But as soon as the warranty is over, they expect you to purchase another controller and/or pump on your own. Can you say “planned obsolescence”?

When the controller itself goes out soon, you will be looking for other options. However, they talked you into this system, which uses a 3 phase motor, so your options will be limited. You will have to replace the expensive controller to be able to stay with the 3 phase motor. Or you will have to replace the motor to go single phase, to work with your house power.

Many times people will bite the bullet and purchase a new VFD controller because the pump/motor is still good. Then in a short time the motor goes out, and they have a fairly new controller, so they opt to replace the 3 phase motor. Later the VFD controller goes out again, and they wish they had just replaced everything with a single phase motor and simple single phase control box at the first sign of trouble.

It is a vicious circle that keeps the cash flowing to the pump/motor/VFD controller manufacturers. Usually at the first sign of trouble, which is hopefully just a transducer in your case, I tell people to go ahead and take the hit. Get a single phase motor and regular speed pump. If you like the constant pressure a Cycle Stop Valve can make that happen with a standard single phase pump/motor. But even a big pressure tank with a pressure switch is much more reliable and longer lasting than any variable speed pump.

Those variable speed type pumps sound good from the advertising hype. But if you want something long lasting, dependable, and inexpensive to maintain, you won’t use a VFD type system.

When you call them out they usually say they knew the old controllers had problems. So they redesigned it and have a NEW controller, which won’t have those problems. I have been hearing this for over 20 years now. Every 18 months a new VFD controller comes out that is supposed to solve all the problems of previous controllers. But that controller also starts giving problems, so a few months later another NEW version arrives. Some companies are in generation 6 or 8 of redesigns. Others just drop the old controller name and start with a new name to keep you from knowing it is the same one that has failed several redesigns in the past. I would not be surprised if that model was no longer even on the market.

Hope you get it going. Even little problems will leave you out of water, usually at the worst possible time. Remember that simple makes it dependable, and simple means water will come out of the faucet when you need it.
 

Hrd2Fnd

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Hello valveman,

Thank you for your insight into this pos. Is there any chance I could replace the transducer myself? You bring up some valid points that we will have to consider that I may have to look into what it will take to swap out.

As to the question about the jumper to run is that an option for short term use?

Hrd
 

Hrd2Fnd

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And if only the company that installed it would return my calls I might be able to give him a piece of my mind.
 

Reach4

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I expect the "sensor" is a pressure sensor. The top of Page 11 gives some troubleshooting information.

Do you have a gauge by the sensor? I wonder if a clogged pipe to the sensor could give that failure indication. Anyway, looking at the voltages should give some info.

I don't know if they would sell a replacement pressure sensor to you, even if you were able to diagnose the problem. I kinda doubt it.
 
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Valveman

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You can get a transducer from places like driveswarehouse.com

If the “jumper to run” will work and the pump will run, you could just use a regular 40/60 pressure switch in place of the transducer and hook one side to the “jumper to run” terminals.
 

Craigpump

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Life is sooooo much simpler and less expensive when a dumb pump is installed with a large tank and a pressure switch.
 

Valveman

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Craig. At the Texas show a couple of weeks ago one pump man ask me “how I could stay in business with all these Variable Speed Pumps to compete with”? He said, “look how many different brands of VFD’s there are”. “EVERY company in this show has there own version of a VFD they say will soon take over the industry, and there will be no more big tanks.”

I said, that proves these companies have figured out people like the benefits of constant pressure systems. That also proves which product they make the most money with. People should realize these companies don’t push VFD’s that hard because they are inexpensive and long lasting. These companies use the many benefits of constant pressure to push their most profitable product. There expensive and short-lived nature makes VFD’s very profitable for the manufacturers. Unfortunately the installers are the ones who get a bad reputation from VFD’s, not the manufacturers, as it should be.

The industry push to VFD’s helps me prove there are MANY benefits to a constant pressure system. However, I have to wait until the customers are tired of the expense and unreliable supply of water from VFD systems. The VFD’s last long enough for people to get accustomed and appreciate the constant pressure to the house. So when the VFD quits prematurely, they find the CSV as an inexpensive, reliable, and long lasting way to get the constant pressure they have really come to enjoy.

VFD technology was already very old in 1993 when the CSV came on the market. The CSV was designed to replace VFD’s. In the last 21 years we have replaced thousands and thousands of VFD’s. The more people that get talked into a VFD, the more ready-made future Cycle Stop Valve customers there are.

I laughed at young guy from a “Controls company” when he said, “with VFDs getting better and cheaper by the day, it won’t be long until they are perfected and every pump system will be VFD controlled”. Still laughing, I told him I have been hearing that exact statement since before he was born. I really do wish I had a nickel for every time I have heard that statement in the last 20+ years.

What I learned 20+ years ago, and everyone else has to come to in their own time, is that Mother Nature or the laws of physics will never let VFD’s be “perfected”. There are many side effects to varying the pump speed that go against the laws of physics.

All the “improvements” made to VFD’s in the last 30 years have only been to apply better Band-Aids to the problems that can’t actually be solved. They can filter harmonics a bit, but they can’t get rid of them. They can lock out critical speeds, but they can’t keep resonance frequency vibration from happening. They can oversize the pumps, but they can’t keep the head or pressure from dropping at the square of the pumps speed. And the list goes on.

What is happening is that every 5 or 10 years there is a new batch of pump installers and engineers, who don’t learn from the mistakes of their predecessors, and start trying to solve these un-solvable problems all over again. Every few years there is also a new batch of consumers who will fall for the same hype, the same way I did several decades ago. I guess the old sayings are true, “there is a new sucker born every minute”, and “those who don’t learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them”.

One of our favorite sayings is, “those who learn from their mistakes, now have a Cycle Stop Valve”. :)
 

Hrd2Fnd

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Thanks everyone, 150 later I replaced the transducer and now have running water. Some great information provided and has me know rethinking for the future

Hrd
 

Hrd2Fnd

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Hello all,

Well here we are 2 years later and yet another sensor fault. Putting 2+2 together I've figured out the cause of the fault. Ready it's the cold weather!!!

I just went and wrapped the sensor in hit towels, reset the power and now have water again.

As this sensor controls the motherboard, what in your opinion is best in hopefully stopping this further? I have thought of wrapping with insulation but figured I would ask you guys.

Hrd
 

Reach4

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Is this outdoors? What keeps the pressure tank from freezing?

Anyway, if you use insulation, I would add a source of heat. Frost King HC3A is one example. They come in different lengths.
 

Hrd2Fnd

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Is this outdoors? What keeps the pressure tank from freezing?

Anyway, if you use insulation, I would add a source of heat. Frost King HC3A is one example. They come in different lengths.

In fact it is outdoors. I have a 4x4 doghouse built around it and now am thinkingi will insulate it and the ground, while thinking of a light bulb for these cold nights. It's not very often that it gets below freezing here, but this time and last time the temps were around 28° at night.
 

Reach4

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In fact it is outdoors. I have a 4x4 doghouse built around it and now am thinkingi will insulate it and the ground, while thinking of a light bulb for these cold nights. It's not very often that it gets below freezing here, but this time and last time the temps were around 28° at night.
http://frostking.com/wp-content/uploads/Pipe_heat_cable_trifold.pdf
Includes a thermostat.

I would think a heater would be less likely to burn out than a light bulb.

I don't know what you mean by insulating the ground, but I expect the ground would usually be a source of heat and the air would be a source of cold in freezing weather.
 

Hrd2Fnd

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Thanks Reach,

By ground insulation I was thinking about using foam insulation panel.
 

Reach4

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Thanks Reach,

By ground insulation I was thinking about using foam insulation panel.
Ground up like making sausage, or between the equipment and the earth? Not sure that insulation from the earth is needed, but if you have a heat source inside it should work either way. Piecing in piece of polyiso or XPS might be good, and is not going to have the risk of getting fiberglass into eyes or lungs.
 

Wondering

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Ground up like making sausage, or between the equipment and the earth? Not sure that insulation from the earth is needed, but if you have a heat source inside it should work either way. Piecing in piece of polyiso or XPS might be good, and is not going to have the risk of getting fiberglass into eyes or lungs.
I use a heat bulb in mine and it works well. When it gets really cold I use an electric heater. Believe it or not, my bulb has lasted several years. It will probably blow when I turn it on this year since I said that. I have had them before that didn't last long but this one has been the exception.
 

Valveman

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I like the little portable space heaters with oil in them. They look like the old radiators in a motel but they don't get hot enough to burn the well house and they have a thermostat so they don't come on until they are needed.
 

Boycedrilling

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I don't know how many pumphouses I go into that have 3 or 4 portable "milkhouse" heaters in them that have burnt out. When I do a pump house, I hard wire in a 30" baseboard heater with a thermostat on its own breaker. Then the customer had something that doesn't get tipped over and will last 20 years or more.
 
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Boycedrilling

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By NEC code, a pump house is required to have at a minimum; an indoor light, an outdoor light over the door, a 120 volt gfci outlet, and a source of heat.
 

Craigpump

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Lights in a pump house? Around here you're lucky if the disconnect isn't hanging by a piece of baling wire
 
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