Can't decide

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Maxie, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. Maxie

    Maxie New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Nyack NY
    Ok, so I know everyone loves the Drake II, and if it were my house, I think I'd go for that one. But, I'm doing a bathroom for my mother, and she just didn't like the Drake b/c she found the seat and the bowl so small (its very narrow) and thought it was very uncomfortable. So, I've been looking at the water area dimensions. The Toto Drake certainly is less than others, and I guess that's b/c the bowl is also narrower inside. So, can I get some feedback on the following toilets that I am considering? (overall length is important b/c it's a small bathroom)

    Kohler Santa Rosa (and any thoughts on the 1.28 vs the 1.6 gpf models - I see they have different flushing systems)

    Kohler Cimarron's - they seem to have every version - round, elongated, 1.28 and 1.6 - all having larger water area's than most.

    A/S - Compact Cadet 3 FloWise Right height Elongated one-piece

    A/S - Cadet Pro Compact Right Height Elongated Toilet

    A/S - Champion Pro Right Height Round Front (I'd go round on this one to keep the overall length around 28")

    Gerber - Avalanche

    I thank you all in advance for any advice.
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,347
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    I have no exact width measurements, but here's something the understand. Although Toto does make and sell toilet seats, toilet seats are universal in size. In other words, you don't have to use a Toto seat on a Toto toilet. If you have a round bowl, then you get a round seat, and if you have an elongated bowl, you get an elongated seat. Go to the plumbing department of a big box store and see their display. What I am getting at is I really don't think there can be much difference in width of any brand. BTW, some of the toilets on your list are really dogs. Now if you are talking about the water spot (the water surface in the bowl) this will vary by model even in the same brand. I have a 1.6 Drake and a 1.6 Dartmouth and both of these have a rather large water spot.
  3. GoKohlerGo

    GoKohlerGo Brand New Plumber

    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Michigan
    If I were you, I'd either go for the Cimarron or the Champion Pro. I have a Cimarron and it has not clogged ONCE in the year we have had it, it has a large water spot, and it has an awesome bowl wash. But, the Champion Pro would be a great choice too. It, too, has a large water spot, doesn't clog, and has an excellent bowl wash.
  4. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,849
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I DO have width info. Mom needs a new set of glasses. As Jim says above, the width of what you plop your tail on is standardized, because it's the seat, not the toilet, and seats are almost entirely interchangeable.

    The Drake II is 14" wide at the widest part of the bowl. Guess how wide your Champion 4 round-bowl is? You guessed it -- 14".

    Unless Mom loves plunging, get her the Drake II and she won't be building up those arm muscles from hours with the toilet plunger.

    Get Mom the seat she is used to -- i.e. get her the SAME seat she now likes or just unscrew it from her current toilet -- and put it on the Drake II, and you'll have the best of both worlds.

    And I respectfully disagree with GoKohlerGo. I'm not going to slag off his favorite toilets -- just look on here and let the myriad actual customers do that.
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,608
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; so I know everyone loves the Drake II

    Well, NOT everyone. I have only installed a few of them and they were furnished by the customer. I have other toilets that I prefer before the TOTOs, and my customers have never complained about their performance.
  6. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,347
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    And the beat goes on...and on. LOL We'll never finish this debate.
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,990
    Location:
    New England
    There's certainly more than one company that makes a decent toilet. Always counting on getting a good one where you decide to buy it is not as certain. Toto doesn't let itself be beat up by the big warehouse stores to meet their selling point to increase their volume...they choose to sell a quality product on their terms. They do not force retail on their products like some companies like Bose or Apple, though.
  8. GoKohlerGo

    GoKohlerGo Brand New Plumber

    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Michigan
    It's not my favorite toilet. I have had experience with Toto, AS, and Kohler and I have found that AS and Kohler do better. I am working to become a plumber and I actually have experience with those toilets.
  9. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,347
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    The vast majority of regulars on this forum are fans of the Toto line. There are always a few who disagree, GoKohlerGo being one especially a none fan, and the guru of all regulars, HJ, seems to be neutral at best. Disagreements aside, there are a couple of things about Toto I believe worth serious consideration. Toto is the world's largest maker of toilets. That means they outsell, the famous old name brands such as American Standard, Kohler, Gerber, Mansfield, and others in spite of being a much newer company, in spite of not selling at discount houses, and not spending tons of money in advertising. In other words, they must be doing something right. This certainly does not mean or imply that the other brands of toilets mentioned do not produce a decent workable product, but complaints about Toto products a very few and far between while other brands are frequently ripped. I have not mentioned the so-called builder grade toilets here, because it should be very obvious that $100 for a complete toilet is not going to get much of toilet, but there are always those who buy the cheapest products without regard for quality.
  10. GoKohlerGo

    GoKohlerGo Brand New Plumber

    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Michigan
    I actually think Toto is OK. But does it matter if companies pay for advertising? Wouldn't that be good, saying that their product is good? You guys always say that companies "dump the rejects on to big box stores" but that isn't true. I have toilets from those stores and they are absolutely perfect.
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,990
    Location:
    New England
    Toto frequently has to import product because they're unable to make more toilets in their Georgia plant...IOW, they're selling all they can make...do you really need to advertise when that's the case? It would make people really annoyed if you advertised a product that was backordered.

    The comment on the big box stores was NOT that they send the rejects to the big box stores, but that to get the price, they do not perform their full QA/QC checks. No factory can survive if all the products coming off the line are bad...IOW, most of them are okay. It's just that you have no way of knowing if the one you buy is going to be good since the big box stores accept everything off the line (well, maybe if it is grossly defective, it may get trashed). Since most of them are good, all's well, you get it cheaper. But, since it isn't a product you buy every day, you may not know that it isn't working as well as it could if it was 100%, or if you do, you take it back, then take your chances the next one will be better. Story after story here of people that know, opening multiple boxes to find one that will sit flat on the floor. You can easily find pictures of some where there is a very significant list in the toilet, but it does sit flat on the floor. No self-respecting, profitable plumber would accept this, so the product sold to the wholesale market generally are better since the bad ones have been culled out. The plumber cannot afford to take one out of five or more toilets back and exchange it after he spent the time to install the first one.

    Terry's experience is reported to be less than 1% defect rate in Toto toilets. He has said that rate is significantly higher for the other brands he sells. I'll leave those numbers for him to comment on, as I do not have the info, but have heard him say that number for Toto more than once - less than 1% is good. Your results, buying a few, verses thousands sold over the years should mean something.
  12. Maxie

    Maxie New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Nyack NY
    Thanks for all the advice. Just wanted to let you all know I ordered the Drake II, both b/c of the reviews and the size/aesthetics (narrow tank - only 15" wide). I'll post my comments in a month, or whenever this project wraps up.
  13. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,849
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Thanks for the update! We will look forward to your report when it's all in!
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