Build up on Galvanized well pipe (Reddish brown)

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by BraynP, Mar 5, 2012.

  1. BraynP

    BraynP New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Canada
    Greetings
    This is my first post.
    I just pulled the Jacuzzi 7SAA-26 submersible pump after it being in the well for over 34 years (the pump failed). I have never pulled a well pump before and I am concerned about the amount of build up on the galvanized pipe below the water line. The build up is Reddish brown and is as much as 1/2" thick in the pipe below the water line. Is this normal to have this much build up on the pipe? The water from the well is clear and medium-hard. There is no build up or staining on the sinks or tolets in the home.

    Second part to my question is: I am going to install a Grundfos 15SQE15 SmartFlo System. I am going to install the pump with 1" 160 PSI NSF Poly. The old pump had a check valve half way up the well pipe at about 135 foot mark. Should I install a check value again at that depth?

    Thanks you for your comments
    Regards
    Bryan
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Why on earth would you want to change from a kind of pump that lasted 34 years to a kind of pump that won’t last a year? The following link has dozens of posts from people who have had major problems with that type of pump. You are switching from a 3450 rpm pump with no electronics to a 10,600 rpm pump that has a computer built in it. How important is it for you that water actually comes out of a faucet when you open it?

    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1726075&pp=&page=2

    The buildup in the pipe sounds like iron bacteria. After the pipe dries, stand it up and hit it with a hammer. All the dry red stuff will fall off. Then switch the pipe on top to the bottom when setting the new pump. Chlorine shock usually helps with iron bacteria. And don’t put an extra check valve anywhere. The one on the pump is all you need.
  3. BraynP

    BraynP New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Canada
    Greetings Valveman

    Thank you for your comment.
    I am going to install the system, and hope for the best ( I have already bought the system in the US and imported to Canada).
    Just to clear up your comments about the check value. Is there a check value in the submersible pump unit or do I need to install one just above the unit.
    Will household bleach work to shock the well?
    I am going to use Poly 160 PSI, because I cut the galvanized pipe off as I pulled it out of the well. What type of lift rope should I us?

    Thanks again for your comments
    Bryan
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Well I wish you the best. I would keep a regular 40/60 pressure switch on the shelf. That way you can get the water back on after the variable speed controller quits. That pump will work with just a pressure switch in place of the CU301 controller. The pump will still cycle on and off quickly, but it will survive a few days until you can get a CSV installed to stop the cycling.

    When the VFD controller quits, it will cycle the pump on and off 1,000 times before it even shows a fault. So cycling a few more days before the CSV arrives shouldn’t be fatal.

    That pump should have a check valve made into the discharge head. You shouldn’t need to add another check valve anywhere. A rope is just an accident waiting to happen. If it breaks or is dropped, it will turn into a bird nest of a wedge and you can’t get the pump out of the hole. Don’t use a rope or cable. You can pull it by the pipe.

    Bleach will work for a shock, but you need to lower the ph first. I use vinegar first then chase it with bleach. Be careful. High doses of chlorine can eat copper pipes and things as well as destroy a septic system.

    I wish you had come to this forum before you bought that pump. We could have saved you a lot of misery and expense.
  5. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    You dont need the other check valve, but a backup one directly at the pump would be nice. I only use ball cone check valves, and be sure its top quality - domestic made.

    My worker has that system for 10 years now, and maybe you'll get lucky too. But you ain't getting near 34 years! If you chlorinate, be sure to read about recirculating it through the well head, and set time. I had a well that was nasty with iron bacteria, and 2 serious cycles of chlorination fixed it. Clean now for about 7 years.
  6. BraynP

    BraynP New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Canada
    Thank you again for your comments
    I have what I have, but thank you for your comments. My neighbor has this system for over four years and it has worked great for them with no problems at all. Let's hope I get lucky also.
    I have a plumper buddy that want to help me install the motor back down the hole. He wants to crimp the poly to hold the fittings to the pitiless adaptor and the fitting to the well pump. Is crimping poly better then hose clamps?

    Thanks
    Bryan
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
  7. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Crimping works on Pex, I never tried it on poly with a barb fitting. But I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    4 to 10 years without any problems with that kind of pump is the exception not the rule. No lightning, use very little water, have very cold water in the aquifer to keep the motor cool, then maybe you will get lucky.
  8. JPat

    JPat New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Johnsburg, Il
    Bryan, if you can use 1" sch 80 pvc threaded pipe insead of the poly pipe, you will have no worries in future extraction. It is light and extremely long lasting, without the head ache of pulling the pump or installing it in one shot. We all know valveman is against VFD's, but I have installed well over 500 Grundfos SQE's with the CU 301 control box(this is not my main selling pump). The failure rate in the early 2000's for the CU301 was high, they have corrected the problems and it works just as well as any VFD system. It is not only the simplest design, pretty much "plug and play", but also priced right for the VFD market. Their pumps have never had an issue and in fact have out performed compairable 4" pumps. I don't care what system you install today, it will not last 34 years, conventional or CSV system. The pumps are not designed to last unfortunately, not a reflection of our industry, but of all "appliances". As for chlorinating your well, you can use a solution of liquid swimming pool chlorine and recirculate it into the well with a garden hose, there is more to a chlorination but that was not your question.
  9. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    524
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    Ah, a new member/driller/pump guy.

    Fresh meat.

    I heard that there was a lot of poly installed on subs up north, glad to see someone else who is anti-poly.

    Glad to have ya.
  10. BraynP

    BraynP New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Canada
    Valveman

    The water here in Western BC is very cold below 200'. I was told some years ago that is one of the reason well pumps last so long here.
    No the neighbors has 1/2 hector yard with grass and fruit trees to water. The home is also a four bedroom with 3 baths. We must be lucky in the North West.

    J Pat

    Almost all the wells here that are less then 20 years old are poly. There is one one well driller in the area, and he does all the wells. He told me he switched from galvanized to Poly about 20 years ago. It is a farther/Son team.
    I only reason I did not go with the local driller to install my new system, it he was $2450 plus install for the 15SQE15 system with control and tank. I purchased the system off **** new for $975.00. It came down to $$$$.

    I will let you know how it works out
    Regards
    Bryan
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
  11. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I do think the colder water helps. But I know contractors in Canada that have just as many problems with those pumps as another contractor I know in Oklahoma. One in Canada says he spent 1 out of 12 months last year doing callbacks on SQE’s. The one in Oklahoma has put in over a thousand and is worried the numerous callbacks may put him out of business. I just think any contractor that likes them, hasn’t been using them long enough or put in enough to have gotten to the same point yet. I think you will soon be happy that it is not your main selling pump. And your right, “it works as well as any VFD system”. I would say maybe even the best of the VFD systems. But that is not saying much.

    No pump you can buy today will last 34 years. But that is a reflection of our industry, as people are being pushed to pumps like the SQE that are expensive and short lived by design. And yes I am against VFD’s being pushed by false pretenses. To say that varying the pumps speed saves energy or makes pumps last longer is simply not true. But they get away with it because the math is too complicated for most to understand.

    At $975 you didn’t get hurt. But that is not the way you are supposed to do things. You are supposed to pay a professional $2400 about every 5 years for one of those. You are not even supposed to be able to buy one without going through a professional. If someone can figure out where you got it, they may loose the ability to sell that brand. :)

    I know I only see the worst side of variable speed pumps. Because by the time someone calls me they have had all they can stand. But I see enough to know it is not an isolated problem.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
  12. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Where they got it was likely the employee's last day at a pump company.

    I would not use crimps. They are torque limited, and a good marine grade hose clamp [3] retorqued on poly a few times is bombproof. Use hot water on your pipe to insert and re-torque. Yes, thats the pipe MFG. rule.

    http://www.aquascience.net/goulds-propak/ This looks like a decent system, and I believe it spins at normal RPM. Quite a low price also.
  13. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    524
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    That system runs at 30-80 hz, which would put it over 3450 rpm on the high side.

    Not a terrible price for pump, motor, and controller.
  14. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    That Goulds Balance Flow system is also variable speed. If they do the 80 hertz thing like TW says, it means you use a ¾ HP pump end on a 1.5 HP motor, and spin it at 80 hz or 4700 RPM to make the ¾ pump end put out as much as a standard 3450 RPM, in 1.5 HP. It also uses a three phase motor, so you don’t have any choice but to replace the controller when it quits, cause you don’t have a single phase motor.

    I still think the Grundfos SQE is superior to this and other VFD systems, for all that is worth. The SQE has certainly been on the market longer. 12 years I believe, and has already had six upgrades or is now in “generation six” as some would say.

    I can’t believe Goulds would allow them to advertise “professional grade” Goulds products on a web page. If I were a Goulds installer, I wouldn’t be happy about that.
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