Brown water....worried

[Prelude]

I was cleaning the toilet this evening and noticed after two flushes the water was coming in light brown. I am not sure where the problem may be, but I'm sensing it may have something to do with the pressure tank or the bladder. My husband is in the basement now, he's a city boy and doesn't have a clue. The valve on the tank was replaced within the past two years, so I'm pretty sure it is OK, but when you knock on the tank itself it sounds hollow like there is no water in it. So here I am sitting here wondering. Can anyone give me any idea. We have a 3/4 hp submersible pump in the yard and a good producing well. So husband was running water in basement and says the pressure valve is kicking on appropriately. We have had an over abundance of rain for 2 days, but have never had this happen in the past. My biggest fear is the bladder will collapse, I need to take a shower tonight.

 

[Reach4]

I was cleaning the toilet this evening and notice after two flushes the water was coming in light brown. I am not sure where the problem may be, but I'm sensing it may have something to do with the pressure tank or the bladder. My husband is in the basement now, he's a city boy and doesn't have a clue. The valve on the tank was replaced within the past two years, so I'm pretty sure it is OK, but when you knock on the tank itself it sounds hollow like there is no water in it. So here I am sitting here wondering. Can anyone give me any idea. We have a 3/4 hp submersible pump in the yard and a good producing well.

Is water from any of the faucets brown? If so, I would fill a glass or jar with the brown water, and let it sit. Does something settle on the bottom?

Maybe check your faucet aerators.

Is the brown redish like rust, or is it tan like butterscotch?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Prelude]

Is water from any of the faucets brown? If so, I would fill a glass or jar with the brown water, and let it sit. Does something settle on the bottom?

Maybe check your faucet aerators.

Is the brown redish like rust, or is it tan like butterscotch?

Thank you for replying. All facets emitting a light tea color of water when cold faucets are turned on. Didn't do the glass of water test, but noticed filmy sediment adhering to walls of toilet bowl. This wasn't happening earlier in the day. Kept flushing and running faucets and it is appearing to lighten. This morning water clear again. It has been raining here the past three days, thought that might have caused sediment to get into well. But sediment usually settles to the bottom of the well (they hit water here at 68' and dug down to 100' for reserve). Which is making me wonder how I could possibly be pulling up water from the bottom of the well (they bailed 15 gpm flow when well was originally dug) However lived here 25 years and have never had this occur. Which is why I have concerns about either the well itself or the bladder of the pressure tank. Calling someone in today to check out our system.

 

[Reach4]

Tell us about your well. Your casing should extend about a foot above ground to keep ground water from seeping in. It is not cheap, but it is worthwhile to get the casing extended if it is below ground level. Well seals leak. Pits flood.

I hope your well person can get things proper. If the casing is already above water, there could be a seal problem.

 

[Prelude]

Tell us about your well. Your casing should extend about a foot above ground to keep ground water from seeping in. It is not cheap, but it is worthwhile to get the casing extended if it is below ground level. Well seals leak. Pits flood.

I hope your well person can get things proper. If the casing is already above water, there could be a seal problem.

Thanks for replying. Our casing sits close to 3 feet above ground. We've only had it open once in 25 years as there was a loose wire leading to the submersible pump which the well people advised us over the phone how to repair.

If there is a seal problem, would that occur above ground or somewhere in the casing beneath the ground?

 

[Reach4]

Good to hear that your casing sticks up beyond a flood level. The thing actually called a "well seal" would be at the top of the well. That might be used in a warm weather place. There is more sealing going on. In areas where there is freezing, there is usually a "pitless". The designs can vary. I don't know if that could be a source of ingress with some designs. Seems unlikely.

It could be that the casing only goes down the hole 20 feet or so. In that case, there needs to be effective grouting of the casing. It is probably required for longer casings, but it seems to me that it would be even more critical if the casing does not go down a 100 feet or so. http://www.agwt.org/content/sealing-well-casing

It would make sense to get your water tested for coliform bacteria during one of the brown water events. When you do that, wash the faucet with bleach first. Then run the water for a few minutes before drawing the sample.

It is possible that some aquifer gets water from runoff somehow. In that case, I guess a sediment filter would be useful to take out stuff. I like the Pentair Big Blue housings with polypropylene filter cartridges if a backwashing filter is not needed.

 

[Valveman]

If you only notice the problem after a heavy rain, the concrete seal around the casing may not be good. I have also seen gopher holes around the well that would let rainwater get below the concrete seal. You wouldn't think clean rainwater would contaminate a well. But rain drags in anything that is around the well down with it. If that is the case the well needs to be cemented, which isn't an easy job.

 

[Prelude]

Well Guys, I am getting an education for sure. We do live in a cold weather climate. If memory serves me correctly our casing and liner goes all the way down the shaft. Our driller/installer knew what he was doing, been in the business for probably 50 years. Too bad he is no longer living. He dowsed for the well placement. Well is located about 20 feet from the back corner of our home. All the guys building the house laughed at him, but the laughing stopped when he hit water at 68'. He told me he was actually bailing more than 15 gpm. I think he tapped into an underground spring. He also used the old fashioned method of sputtering instead of rotary. My brother built his home on adjacent property and used someone different (rotary driller), drilled three wells, all over 300 feet and ended up having to use one 200 feet down the driveway from his home, so he pumps up hill. If he's getting 4-5 gmp if he's lucky and to boot he has methane gas in his water. That cost him a pretty penny to resolve.

Any way I want to thank you both. We've had very good luck with our well and our water quality is outstanding and we want to keep everything that way so I have a call in for someone to come in and inspect our system.

 

[Reach4]

Nice wells story. I would still draw that glass of water. If the material settles, get a sediment filter. If it doesn't settle in a day, get a finer filter.

 

[Prelude]

Nice wells story. I would still draw that glass of water. If the material settles, get a sediment filter. If it doesn't settle in a day, get a finer filter.

Thanks, will do. Going to fill a glass now. If sediment is still there and it settles, what then.

 

[Reach4]

"Then what"? I don't know your water. I tend toward overkill when I do some things. BBFS-22 Pentek Two Housing Filter System gives you two big housings, the bracket, and the interconnnection. Initially I would put a PENTEK-DGD-5005-20 heavy duty filter cartridge into the second housing. I would initially leave the first housing empty.

Also I would get a spare O-ring. Pentek 151122 O-Ring. I have not needed a spare yet, but it is good to have. I do not have bypass plumbing around my filter, so a bad O-ring would put me out of service.

You should only tighten by hand, but the 144368 SW-4 Wrench for 20" Big Blue aids in removal.

Note these are big housings. So they are heavy when full of water. So you want ready access.

Smaller housings are probably sufficient. They would be lighter. A single housing might be quite enough. I got my 3 Pentair Big Blue 4.5 housings before I knew I was getting the iron+sulfur backwashing filter. So there is not much to do. I leave the first housing empty. The second one has a DGD-5005-20 polypropylene spun 50-5 dual gradient 20 gpm filter.
The third housing has the PENTEK-WP1BB20P polypropylene wound WP1BB20P 1 micron filter. You also need a small amount of food-grade silicone grease. I got Molykote 111 in a 5.3 oz tube. That will last me forever. When I apply grease, I use nitrile gloves. Others use a lighter weight silicone compound. Do not use petroleum jelly; that is bad for the O-rings.

I changed the filters after 13 months, and it looked like I could have gone much longer. If I had not gotten the backwashing filter, my cartridge filters would have had much more to do. You should have seen what I flushed out of my water heater. I also got a "boiler" tap after the filters and before the water softener. That can be good for drinking water if you like minerals, and it is a good place to screw a pressure gauge. It is also handy for relieving the pressure when changing the cartridges.

As I say, smaller housings probably would be more than enough for you. One housing may be quite enough for you. If you get 10 x 4.5 housings, you could always go to bigger bottoms and filters later. The 10x4.5 and 20x4.5 cartridges are not proprietary and are available from many sources with different constructions. Do not use cellulose cartridges on a well.


I think that part of the job of the filter is to show you what was in your water that got filtered out.

http://waterpurification.pentair.co...d/en/310053-pentek-bigblue-specsheet-mr14.pdf

 

[Craigpump]

Filters are great for sediment, but if you see brown water after a heavy rain that means there is an issue with the well and could possibly be contaminated. Filters won't help with that.

 

[Prelude]

OK, I'm back with the latest. Over the course of last evening the water cleared. This AM clear water, showered, flushed toilet several times during the course of the day. Well guy came out. The first place he wanted to go was to see the holding tank and pressure valve. After looking at that he told me I needed a new pump. The way he explained it to me was that pump was wearing out and not able to pump in enough water. They told me this after intently watching that pressure valve for about 10 minutes. After that he never bothered to look at the well itself. OK. My pump is 27 years old, sounds good to me, but I still can figure why it was pulling brown water. Time marched on. So late this afternoon, we had a couple more downpours. I flush the toilet and it refilled with really, really brown water. Like yesterday all over again.

Now I'm not the brightest bulb in the socket, but it seems to me that when it rains and my water turns brown something is getting into that well and replacing the pump isn't going to solve the problem. May-be I don't understand the mechanics of this. By tomorrow morning, if we don't get any more rain, I expect to see clear water again.

 

[Prelude]

Filters are great for sediment, but if you see brown water after a heavy rain that means there is an issue with the well and could possibly be contaminated. Filters won't help with that.

Ok, fill me in, cause this is when we are getting the brown water. 2 days in a row now after heavy rain. How does this happen? I understand something due to the rain is getting into the well to contaminate it, but how? What may have failed in the well itself?

 

[Reach4]

I think you quite correct. I hope you did not agree to let him change the pump. That "sounds good to me" doesn't sound so good to me.

During the rain does water pool around the casing, or can you see water flowing in? Maybe sprinkle some flour onto the water on the ground during the rain, and maybe you can see a flow.

As a temporary move, perhaps you could put a tent over your casing. If the water does not turn brown, that would say something. I think that you really don't need that experiment to know there is a non-pump problem.

Paragraph 2 of http://www.agwt.org/content/sealing-well-casing says

If unsealed, the well annulus could provide a direct pathway from the surface to the ground water below at a significantly fast pace compared to infiltration through undisturbed soil. If the natural cleansing process incumbent during infiltration is short-circuited through the annular space, bacteria and other contaminants may be introduced to the ground water.​

 

[Craigpump]

Hope you're not drinking it.

Any surface bacteria can be getting into that well rendering non potable.

 

[Prelude]

I think you quite correct. I hope you did not agree to let him change the pump. That "sounds good to me" doesn't sound so good to me.

During the rain does water pool around the casing, or can you see water flowing in? Maybe sprinkle some flour onto the water on the ground during the rain, and maybe you can see a flow.

As a temporary move, perhaps you could put a tent over your casing. If the water does not turn brown, that would say something. I think that you really don't need that experiment to know there is a non-pump problem.

Paragraph 2 of http://www.agwt.org/content/sealing-well-casing says

If unsealed, the well annulus could provide a direct pathway from the surface to the ground water below at a significantly fast pace compared to infiltration through undisturbed soil. If the natural cleansing process incumbent during infiltration is short-circuited through the annular space, bacteria and other contaminants may be introduced to the ground water.​

I wish I could see a picture. So this black steel pipe with the cap on top that sticks out of the ground 3 feet is considered the casing (annulus)? Does it go all way down the shaft, or at some point does it connect to another casing that goes further into the well? Isn't there also a liner in there somewhere. What I'm trying to wrap my head around is how/why surface water can be getting inside the casing when it is 3 feet above ground? Could there be a hole in the casing or can water run down the outside of it down into the well. I think I am getting more confused then I was in the beginning. I'm starting to mumble to myself and that isn't a good thing.

Anyway, I talked to the driller/well guy again this evening, he still thinks it is the pump, even though I told him I felt surface water was getting into the casing or the casing needed work. When he pulls the old pump, I am going to tell him I want to retain in until we see if we still get the brown water with the new one. I know you feel I shouldn't invest in a new pump as this may not be the issue, but I can't fight city hall (my husband). I'm too nice to challenge the issue with the driller if it turns out he is wrong, however, my husband is not and he won't be pleasant about it. By the way, this driller has been around a long time, his father and mine were good friends, and I remember him and his brothers used to come out to our family farm and help bale hay when we were all teenagers. In other words, I have reasonable faith that he isn't out to rip us off.

Well I had this grand idea while I was out gazing at the well. I pulled out the grass around the casing and went into the house to fetch my huge bottle of red food coloring which I was going to pour around the casing. Then I remembered I can't get to the kitchen because we are in the process of getting our floor refinished.

To the other poster, we aren't drinking the water.

 

[Reach4]

Take pictures of the new and old pumps-- especially the labels. The new pump might last a dozen years, and the old pump may or may not have another 12 in it. I am not a pro. Click Inbox above.

 

[Craigpump]

Have the water tested for potability BEFORE you spend money on a pump.

 

[Craigpump]

Tell me about your electric bill, is it higher than normal. The same?