bathroom layout - opinions?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by nukeman, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. nukeman

    nukeman Nuclear Engineer

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    VA
    I am currently working on a bathroom in my basement. The few main problems that I am currently addressing include:

    - venting the unvented shower drain
    - venting the laundry standpipe on other side of this wall (was also unvented)

    I am now playing with layout. Currently, the lav is too close to the toilet (maybe 12" clearance). If you were to measure from the center of the toilet forward, it is clear space, both the right side is blocked with the lav. In fact, the lav was the wall mounted type and it would hang over your left knee if you sat on the toilet (cover about 6" from the bend on my knee). Shower is getting a new drain line (with vent).

    I am trying to decide which option is the best. Option 1 keeps the toilet and moves the lav to get 21" clearance. This puts the lav very close to the shower. It would be legal in terms of clearance (since the shower will have a sliding door and could be accessed from the right side). However, this option looks a bit weird.

    Option 2 rotates the toilet and keeps the lav about in the center of the room. This layout looks best to me, but would block the cleanouts in the base of the stacks. The toilet could be removed when access was needed, though.

    Option 3 also rotates the toilet and moves to the opposite wall. This still looks a little weird to me. Have to consider running the vent.

    The inside dimensions are about 110"x48"

    The main building drain runs horizontally parallel to the interior cinder block wall (right to left) about 14" from the wall, under the slab.

    Current toilet is elongated bowl. I could move to a round bowl to gain a couple more inches if needed.

    One sticky point is the exterior wall (brick + cinder block) is furred out with 2x2 and has 2" thick fiberglass batts compressed in this space. This is also on the walkout side out the basement, so is a true exterior wall. The toilet currently is pinned tightly to this wall. I believe it is a 12" rough-in, but would have to double check. Rotating the toilet would get the water supply line out of that barely insulated wall and I could add a stud wall in front of it for additional insulation.

    Just wanted to see what yopu opinions were. This might go better in the Remodeling section, but plumbing is impacted, so I decided to put it here.

    Thanks!
    Kent

    Existing:
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9432&stc=1&d=1262724252[\img]

    Option1:
    [IMG]http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9433&stc=1&d=1262724262

    Option 2:
    [​IMG]

    Option 3:
    [​IMG]

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  2. nukeman

    nukeman Nuclear Engineer

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    VA
    I just realized the options 2 and 3 won't work due to clearance. Assuming 27" long toilet installation:

    27+21 (min front clearance) = 48"

    However, where the wet wall is, the width of the bathroom is a few inches less than that. I can push out the wall a bit (I already pushed it out 4" to get the larger shower and a bit more elbow room). However, this wall is about 8" from a window, so I can't move much without looking weird. I also can't wrap this window into the bathroom space as this bath is in a corner of the basement bedroom. If the walls are moved so that the window is within the bathroom, I lose the egress for the bedroom.

    Looks like option 1 will have to do unless you guys see another option.

    I also measured the closet bolts for the toilet from the finished wall and I get 11.5"
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,525
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2010
  4. nukeman

    nukeman Nuclear Engineer

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    VA
    hmm.. interesting. I didn't know they made such a beast. I'll look into that. Thanks, hj!

    Everything is opened up right now, so things can be moved as needed. Of course, plumbing connections, clearances, and function/aesthetics need to be considered.
  5. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    You notice the boys are a little slow responding to this. Many plumbers would rather have a root canal than talk to an "engineer" about a plumbing job. Nothing personal here. And a nuclear engineer to boot! You probalby want to see BFPL curves on the new toilet!

    Anyway, your diagrams don't have any dimensions shown, so we cant tell if any of the proposals meet code ( toilet centered in a minimum 30" wide opening, 24" clear floor space in front of toilet).

    And what is under? If you have a crawl space or basement, you could most likely accomplish the plumbing for any option. If it is a slab, that changes the complexion of the job.
  6. nukeman

    nukeman Nuclear Engineer

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    VA
    Thanks, jimbo. Please ignore me being an engineer. I know that some people in trades have some tension with engineers. My cousin, an electrician, is like that. He tells me about how the electrical engineers that design the layouts don't know real world, etc.

    I personally respect people in all fields of work. That is one of the reasons that I do DIY:

    - learn something
    - save some bucks
    - spend some time in someone else's shoes

    I think the last item is probably the most important for me. I know that you guys work hard for your pay and a lot of it is in not so nice of spaces (under cabinets, crawlspaces, etc.). I can imagine some of the conditions that you have probably faced. I worked my way through college (and grad school) with jobs at or just above minimum wage. Nothing has been handed to me. I know what work is and respect anyone who works hard for a living (and I know that your guys do).

    Where I am, 21" clearance in front is code. Base on 2006 Viginia residential code:


    [FONT=Verdana,Bold][FONT=Verdana,Bold]FIXTURE CLEARANCES: [/FONT][/FONT]
    Toilets, sinks and showers shall have the minimum clearances listed below.
    - 21 inches in front of sinks and toilets.
    - 24 inches in front of shower stall opening.
    - 4 inches between two adjacent sinks.
    - 4 inches between a sink and a toilet.
    - 4 inches between a sink and a wall.
    - 2 inches between a sink and a bathtub.
    - 15 inches clearance from a toilet's centerline to an adjacent fixture or wall on each side.

    Width (interior at shower) is 49" without drywall. Interior length is just under 110" (with 32" used up with the shower). Width (along where wet wall runs) would be about 45".

    The bathroom is in a basement with plumbing under slab. Section of concete has already been cut and dug out (muddy virginia clay) to access the 4" CI main line. The shower and laundry standpipe were not vented, so I am fixing those at the same time. I can certainly cut/dig more as needed to re-locate plumbing. All this work is done under permit. I already have a permit, but I have to revise the plan as the venting issues were discovered after tearing into things. I figure I should take this time to make the bathroom more functional and bring it up to code. The toilet, lav, and shower are all being replaced. Nothing is set in stone for the layout or dimensions.

    I've been reading up on all the codes and the forum, but practical knowledge is where it's at. The codes say what you are allowed to do. It takes experience to know how to lay things out in the real world to meet those codes.

    Just think of me as someone who works on really big water heaters. :)

    It is okay if you don't want to help me. It doesn't need to be that way, but it's okay. I'll figure it out. I figured since most of you have seen many bathroom layouts, maybe you would know of some options (like the corner toilet hj mentioned) that I had not considered.

    I am certainly open to help any of you on anything that I have knowledge of. For instance, I have driven several hours (on multiple occasions) to help people that I barely knew fix their cars and didn't charge them a dime to do it. That is just how I am.
  7. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    I would pick the bottom right picture probably as long as it met all codes.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,525
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    toilet

    Several companies make them. Here is the picture of one [​IMG]
  9. nukeman

    nukeman Nuclear Engineer

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    VA
    Thanks, hj. That would probably do the trick. I'll take some measurements and see how the layout would look. I imagine that the 12" rough-in for this toilet would be measured from the sidewalls instead of the corner?

    I have seen corner tubs, showers, and lavs, but this is the first I have run into a corner toilet. Makes sense that they would make them for tight spaces like this, though.

    I'll let you guys know what I end up doing.

    Thanks!
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