Basement plumbing layout

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by novicepiper, May 1, 2008.

  1. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA

    Thanks to Krows drawing ( page 1) - your input now makes perfect sense - i will update the image ( on page 1 ) and let you all see it to check it out - im in canada so if anyone from canada could set me straight on the vent size that would be cool.

    thanks again Novice piper
  2. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I'm in Ontario Canada. 1 1/2" venting for your layout is fine across Canada


    BTW, in Canada, you cannot use a double wye on a horizontal run/drain (Just thought I would mention it)
  3. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA
    Is this ok?

    Thanks for the sketch Krow muchos appreciated - is the 3" to the 3rd floor tied in to the 4" stack correctly/position below the kitchen sink? & in turn is the kitchen sink tied in correctly to the 4" stack?

    Thanks Krow :)

    novicepiper

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 3, 2008
  4. bombjay

    bombjay New Member

    Messages:
    62
    Run your toilet back to the wall then vent it kind of like this...Hope you can see this.The toilet vent can be 2" If your waste is 4" that is fine.You had no sizing on your waste and vents.1 1/2 for your tub and lav (Uhhh sink.)waste, 1 1/4 for your tub and sink vents until they connect with the toilet vent.Could you post a pic. of the room and maybe the space below?



    [​IMG]
    Last edited: May 3, 2008
  5. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA
    could you send a larger pic if poss - i cant read your dims. I thought i had listed every pipe dim in the room via the left top coloured dots (4", 3" 2", 1.5"). I thought the layout was complete! as is re last image posting ------ please bare in mind, this is all done at the computer at the mo. the only pipe in that room at the mo is the main blue stack running vertical and then offset underground exactly as on image:)

    Thanks for your input - really appreciated Bombjay.

    PS The image is to scale in everyway I will update the image and include all measurements


    ROOM DIMENSIONS = 118" (9' 8") X 63" (5' 2") and 18" depth below ground level.
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  6. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    What software do you use for those gorgeous drawings? If it could transform back and forth from 3D to the standard plumbing drawing format (like Krow did -- it's got a name but I forget what it is), that would be great.

    Are you a novice piper as in plumbing, or as in piping?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-D6iI_3LHE

    (This gets good about 1:20 into the clip. Who ever would have thought of harmonizing guitar and bagpipe?).

    Mikey

    Also a novice piper... (that's not me in the clip)
  7. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA
    Thanks for the vid - im neither a bag pipe player or plumber i just can sweat pipes and glue abs pipes together... that certainly does not qualify me for either as i dont know the theory behind venting, is it supposed to suck air in or act as a release for frontal air force and push air out of the way of on coming waste - i thought it was both - but I am probably sort of incorrect maybe.

    i do like the bag pipes and the guitar though - so thats acdc then - thats a first for me:eek:

    software 3d max - no idea what the software your talking about re schematics & 3d in one - if you find out let me know please:)

    thanks novicepiper
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  8. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    The main reason for venting (combined with fixture traps) is to prevent the infiltration of sewer gas (it's as bad as it sounds) into the living space.

    Imagine a fixture like a sink with a straight pipe going into a sewer. With no water in the drain pipe, the gases generated in the sewer have a clear path into the house. This would be bad :(. If you've ever used an outhouse or port-a-potty on a hot day, you have only a slight inkling of how bad it can be -- like fatal :eek:.

    So, the sink (and all other fixtures as well) have those "trap" thingies in their drains to keep (trap) a small puddle of water in them, sealing the pipe from the sewer. Toilets have a trap built in to the bowl -- a large part of the water used in the flush goes to refill the trap with nice clean water after all the poop has been washed downstream.

    However, if an upstream neighbor or fixture let go a large discharge, that frontal air pressure you mentioned might push the trapped water aside and burble sewer gas up into the sink. Bad :(. Or, when you drain the sink, or when any large slug of water going goes down the drain downstream from the sink, a low-pressure situation could be created and siphon the trap, draining enough water to destroy the seal. Bad :(.

    The vent system allows all the traps to remain in a pressure-neutral state, and not be siphoned, maintaining the seal. Good (big-grin smiley intended here, but prohibited by the system, which I just found out is limited to 4 images per message).
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  9. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA
    Thanks Mikey that was a good explanation - i knew about the p trap water keeping poopie smells out etc - just not sure about the venting issue - but now i do have a clearer understanding... do you happen to know the meaning of life...and starbucks, whats that all about!
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  10. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA
    venting - mikey

    So as i understand: and please correct me if im wrong

    1) large discharge of water from above could create positive pressure and push air through a p trap below - resulting in bubbles and poopy smells?

    2) large discharge of water from below could create negative pressure (vacuum) and suck air from a p trap above - resulting in siphoning and poopy smells?

    please see my little diagram-

    Q1) whats stops A and B from having positive and negative pressure on the kitchen sink?

    Q2) Will C affect any of the above floors?



    thanks novicepiper

    Attached Files:

  11. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    If you do this, you will be in the good books with any Canadian inspector and or Canadian juresdiction. Your sizing of venting and dranage is ok. We generally do not use any 1 1/4" pipe and fittings any more because they are double and triple the money than the 1 1/2". (just a cost factor)

    You are allowed to use 1 1/2" for your bathtub drain. 2" is optional. The waste and overflow assembly kit for the bathtub will be 1 1/2" anyway

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  12. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA
    Cool - thanks Krow - the red pipe in the revision you posted... can that go up straight up, or does it have to be exactly as in your drawing?

    - ill start preping everything now and leave that one section until i hear back from you - thanks again

    novicepiper
  13. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    The sketch Krow made is in line with what I was suggesting. I would however, break out some more slab and run the lav drain more direct with fewer elbows and shorter horizontal runs. Both have effects on reliability. 2" is a minimum Dia. under the slab.

    As with anything there are a few different ways of doing it. Below is a sketch of what I was saying. I did not show connection details you seem to have a handle on that. Please excuse my rudimentary drawing... What did your program cost? Where is it available?

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  14. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    If you can go straight, then do it. It will save you on fittings. The best path from location A to location B, is in a straight line.

    Redwood suggested a couple of alternative routes to take, which are just as good. There are many ways to skin a cat lol
  15. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    If you want to stick with the pic I provided, maybe these slight amendments might suit you better

    Attached Files:

  16. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA

    Thanks for all your input Redwood - I believe I referenced you to krow in one of Krows postings you have both been v helpful/useful and patient with my lack of knowledge - so thanks again :D

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    SOFTWARE TITLE: 3ds max
    COMPANY: Autodesk
    Price: 3K+ tax depends on what version you buy.

    You can download a free trial but if you've not done any 3d before, it prob going to be more work than results - that said i picked it up ok so im sure anyone else can too:)

    Im up for doing visuals if you need any (which i doubt) but the offers there - just let me know.

    I don't have the software but I could do you some visuals if you needed!?

    thanks

    novicepiper
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  17. novicepiper

    novicepiper Not a Master Plumber

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    CAN Toronto GTA
    thanks

    At this juncture, I believe the last image to be complete and final - thanks mainly to Redwood, Krow, Mikey & Jimbo + everyone else too.

    If anyone has any questions let me know - once again, a big thanks to you all.

    novicepiper
  18. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    $3K Gulp!:eek:

    I guess I'll keep the rough ones I'm using...

    That last sketch should do well for you!
    It certainly looks a lot simplier than the one you started with huh?:cool:
  19. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    a1) proper venting of the kitchen sink
    a2) yes, if the upper floors aren't vented properly.

    Here's a simple test I just made up, which a real pro can correct and my feelings won't be hurt: for any fixture, its trap must be vented, and that vent path to open air cannot be affected by anything that can suck or blow. There are special cases (e.g., stack venting) that aren't obvious.
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  20. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I'll accept your simple test.
Similar Threads: Basement plumbing
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Basement Bathroom with Ejector - Is existing plumbing to code? Oct 10, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Help plumbing new 1/2 bath in basement. Jun 27, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Basement Rough in Plumbing Identification and Solution Apr 29, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Basement plumbing/bathroom Feb 17, 2014
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Basement bath rough plumbing advice needed Jan 26, 2014

Share This Page