A change of plans

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Mudball, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. Mudball

    Mudball New Member

    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    TN
    After the wife and I have considered the recirculating options and hearing so many different cost/saving methods that we are considering other options. The only fixture in our (not yet finished) house that we really would like to have fast flowing hot water at is our kitchen sink which happens to be the fixture furthest from the hot water heater anyway.
    Im so tired from reading differnt applications and options for under-sink hot water that my head is spinning. Wouldnt a regular electric under-sink hot water heater be best ?
    You know like a larger standard hot water heater except a smaller under-sink version.
  2. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    They have small instant WH heaters, electric, that can be mounted under the sink that would work...they provide enough HW just for the sink...
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,255
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    heaters

    There isn't a SINGLE "instant electric" water heater that would EVER provide water for the dishwasher, and the amount flowing from the sink faucet, using the NECESSARY flow restricting aerator is almost enough to wash your hands, but nowhere adequate for any other purpose. A 2 gallon electric heater IN LINE with the hot water supply will provide immediate limited hot water, and if more is needed the water from the main heater will arrive after a short period of warm/cold water flow when the little heate is depleted.
  4. Mudball

    Mudball New Member

    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    TN
    Thanks Cass. Ive seen some of these in searching and reading. We really believe we would rather have something electric rather than gas. So is there a under-sink (possibly commercial version) electric water heater that has a long track record that has stood the test of time ? We would rather pay extra up front to enjoy longevity.
  5. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
  6. Mudball

    Mudball New Member

    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    TN
  7. Mudball

    Mudball New Member

    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    TN
    Im fairly sure we are going to install an electric tankless how water heater under the kitchen sink...I think. A question I have is there a heater as I mentioned above that will supply hot water on demand but then cut off after the hot water arrives from the main hot water supply ?
  8. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    If you supply water to the heater with hot water it will only have to boost the temperature for a short period and then the incoming hot water will shut off it's thermostat. Not a bad way to go about the problem really.
  9. Instant Hot Water under sink. Mini tank.

    hi.
    Since this thread is now about Instant Hot Water in the kitchen, here are my notes from web searching I did last year:

    (legend: Instant Hot = IHW)



    It's handy

    Handy for instant foods
    Coffee, hot chocolate, oatmeal, jello, even soup, tea, tisanes, infusions.

    Handy for cooking
    Jump-start boiling water for cooking. Add hot water to food cooking. (Far better i.m.h.o. than a pot filler over the stove, which always has cold water in it, never hot.)

    Handy for defreezing
    "... float a bag of frozen shrimp in a bowl of instant hot water - it's ready in no time.





    It's practical
    Cleaning
    A few drops of Instant hot water on the corner of a microfiber towel and you can wipe anything spotless.
    Almost boiling water can break up almost anything stuck to a pan.
    Pots, pans, tupperware, silverware-- anything that has to be hand-washed.
    Or, has to be degreased -- put a drop of dishwashing detergent, then the boiling water and let it soak for a minute if it's for more than the new grease from cooking.
    You can even use it to soak dirty pots when you first get it.

    Comments seen from others:
    "A drop of dish soap on a microfiber cloth with a corner soaked by the instant hot water will clean even the greasiest grossest thing I can do to my counter top. I also like rinsing off my can opener in the hot water while the offending agent is still fresh on the blades.
    "I dampen a microfiber cloth with the hot water and clean baseboards, sills, doors, fingermarks, stove, counters. "
    "One of the big things I use it for is cleaning...
    "We use ours daily at least, and usually multiple times daily.



    It's elegant
    Less clutter and time
    You'll minimize the clutter on your counter tops with fewer bottles and appliances.
    No more kettle sitting on the stove all the time. Or on the counter.
    No wait time for the water to boil for tea, coffee, or to boil water for anything on the stove.
    No wait time to warm up a coffee mug before use.
    "I don't have to wait for a kettle to boil and then wait for the tea to cool enough for me to drink it.
    I just use the IHW which is not as hot as a boiled kettle would be. (It's still hot, however!)
    So I've saved time in two ways: not waiting for a kettle and not waiting so I don't burn my mouth."
    "The countertop kettle got hotter than the IHW, but what a pain to have to frequently refill it."


    Comments from others
    "I know this is getting repetitive now, but I LOVE mine, use it at least once a day, and though I never had one before, I cannot imagine a kitchen without one now. I use it for hot drinks, heating up cold coffee mugs and thermoses before hot coffee goes in, speeding up pasta water boiling, cleaning, etc. I just have the simplest model."
    "I am always finding a new use for this low budget addition, and for me too, this is one of my favorite features."
    "I make bread : by mixing the IHW w/ cold I'm able to get the right temp for the yeast, in a second."
    "We use ours throughout the day, every day. Every single day. The use we get is disproportionate to its cost; for us the cost has turned out to be inconsequential because of its frequent, wonderful convenience. For us it's worth its weight in gold!"
    "My espresso maker is not a very satisfactory hot water dispenser. The espresso maker has to be turned on, and the water heated first, and then it is slow to dispense. I also find it handier to have the hot water at the sink for more uses. The espresso maker might meet your needs for an occasional use and only for beverages, but if you want to use it more, I'd get the instant hot. I almost didn't get one, but I'm glad we did."
    "Wish I had sprung for the hot and the chiller, but even filtered cool tap water would be nice. On the same faucet as my reverse osmosis water.


    About the temperature:
    You can adjust the temperature in a range below boiling.
    Some people like it as much as 15 degrees higher than others.
    If you don't like scalding water for tea, it won't matter to you.
    Tea is best when the water is below boiling temperature.



    According to one manufacturer, here are some ways to use instant hot water:
    Loosen Jar Lids. Run hot water over the tilted jar lid, and then twist off the ring
    Faster Cooking. Use hot water to get started cooking pasta faster. Rice too
    Keeping Food Hot. Warm plates, coffee mugs, and tea cups with hot water to help keep food and beverages hot and delicious
    Scooping Ice Cream. Between servings warm your scoop in a bowl of hot water
    Cutting Cheese. Heat up the cheese knife by running it under an ounce of hot water
    Creaming Butter. To soften butter more quickly, rinse your mixer's beaters under hot water. (Shake off excess water to dry before proceeding.)
    Removing Skins. Wash fruit first. Place ripe tomatoes or peaches in hot water, and then dip in cold water. The skins will easily slip off
    Remove Baked-On Food. Dissolve dishwasher detergent in hot water to soak pots and pans
    Remove Labels From Bottles
    Remove Wax Residue. Paraffin from Candles dissolves under hot water
    Remove Shortening. Use hot water to clean measuring cups so you can use them right away for other ingredients
    Cleaning Cheese Graters
    Polishing Silver. Run it under hot water to give it extra shine
    Polishing Jewelry. Soak it in hot water and ammonia to keep it looking like new
    Melt Chocolate. Run hot water over the outside of a small bowl to pre-warm. Break the chocolate into small pieces. Put enough hot water in a larger pan or bowl to cover about one-half of the chocolate bowl. Stir frequently. The temperature is perfect for melting
    Warming Baby Food. Use hot water in a pan or bowl to heat baby food jars or to warm formula bottles
    Warming Syrups
    Quick First Aid. Use hot water to make a hot compress for temporary pain relief
    Freshen The Air. Add hot water to potpourri to fill your home with aromatic scents




    ---

    All the tanks are good. None are better or worse.

    You can get a handle separately from the tank but for 99.995% of the population it is best to get a handle sold as an IHW handle, along with the THREE pipes-- it has to be set up with three pipes the last one of which is open-air. The first two pipes send water into the valve out back out to the tank, thereby pushing IHW water out of the third tube/pipe. The last pipe (or tube) being open allows pressure relief in case. Also, this setup means that boiling hot water does not have to transit thru the valve.


    Since last year I looked into this a lot since I wanted IHW --- but wall-mounted on the sink wall so as not to have one more escutcheon thingie to clean around on the countertop.
    Talk about research !!

    hope this helps.
    -david
  10. Mudball

    Mudball New Member

    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    TN
    Thanks again for all the help. geniescience can you please tell me exactly your personal setup that you have like name/make/model ? If you dont care to say what you have on here then feel free to send me a message.
    Thanks
  11. I've studied the problem and come up with a solution, but I wouldn't know whether or not the lowest price IHW boiling-hot tank would be a good buy or not.

    From reading my big post above, does this make sense to you all?

    I got the lowest cost one I could find. About $150 give or take.
    I dislike paying big bucks until I know why I should.
    Time will tell.
    Ask me again in 5 or 10 years.

    If anyone has experience with specific tanks or handles that are truly different from the average ones, please tell us whatever you can.
  12. Mudball

    Mudball New Member

    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    TN
    That sounds great and thanks for the reply. I understand what you are saying. Im just wanting to make sure that Ive covered all my options before we pour a concrete pad in a few months and make sure that everything is installed correctly for future use. My biggest problem is that we arent sure what we want for the correct application. All we DO know is that we want hot water (pretty fast) at the kitchen sink to wash hands, dishes, etc...
  13. Auxiliary Water Heater under the kitchen sink : See this thread
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32774
    This is one option. It will give you hot water at the tap all the time.
    Furthermore, it will feed your dishwasher; ...and, if you install a mixer thereby feeding warm (mixed) water to your dishwasher, you and your stemware will be 100% satisfied with the installation. They can be about 15" diameter and 15" high for the smallest ones.

    The long post from me was about a different animal, which produces Boiling Hot water on demand. Instant Boiling Hot. This cannot feed your dishwasher. It gives you dangerously hot water, on demand, at your kitchen sink. Which has its advantages.
  14. gator37

    gator37 Retired prof. engr.

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Alabama
    Power

    Don't forget to run power to what ever type heating system you use under the sink.
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,319
    Location:
    New England
    A recirculating system uses very little power. If you insulate the pipes, you don't lose much. I run mine on a timer, so it only enables the pump when I'm typically up. If you can afford to wait, you could use a momentary period timer that you activate prior to your use. Depending on the piping, it may need to run for a minute or so to get hot there, then the timer turns it off. Depending on the piping layout in the house, this would provide hot water at most if not all outlets in the house. It works best if you run a dedicated return line. A tank at the kitchen sink would only benefit that sink. A recirculation system would work on all points of use...your shower, each bathroom, etc.

    If you pay a lot for your water and sewer, having recirculation means less down the drain while you wait for it to get warm elsewhere. Some places are mandating them for new construction for that reason.
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