7000SXT Error 0

[rattle_snake]

Hello,

I have a 7000sxt unit that was in house when I purchased it. drain ran continuously, although it did function. Had unit 'rebuilt' under seller's home warrant, now 1 year later more problems.

Drain was running full flow for about 8 hour so I removed power. Plugged back in, now getting 'error 0'. I removed head and inspected operation. Motor, gears and valves all work fine no binding through 360 degree rotation. unit will 'SYNC' and cam will rotate more than one whole revolution before displaying error 0 code. Error 0 is cam sensor error, looks like infrared optical going to pins on IC. What is next step here?

Is this 7000SXT a decent unit compared to stuff at big box stores (GE, Whirlpool)? looks identical to Krystal pure sold at Lowes

thanks in advance
Justin

 

[ditttohead]

7000SXT is one of the best valves available.

Error 0 may indicate a problem with the board. You did the important test, confirmed the motor and drivetrain all work correctly.

Replace the board and you will likely be good to go.

You could try a hard reset first and see what happens.

Unplug the power, hold the regen button while you plug the power back in, you should see HR on the board, this will reset the board to factory defaults.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I think you want to write down the program settings before doing that factory reset.

 

[rattle_snake]

I think you want to write down the program settings before doing that factory reset.

That was my plan however if SYnc fails you cannot get into the menus to observe any settings. I tried the reset and results the same.

Looking at the circuit board, I can see where sensor power comes from so I tested with a volt meter, and there was no power feeding large resistor before sensor transmitter (not sure if this is hall effect or optical). Receiver was static at 5V regardless of wheel position. The PCB has some corrosion on it where it touched the plastic housing, so I cleaned it. I started probing back from sensor and noticed that the trace on the back side that has corrosion was the one that should be feeding 31V DC. The via was corroded though so I repaired with a fine piece of wire and now board passes SYnc test. Now receiver switched back and forth between logic levels as wheel turns.
So this is a special case where moisture was trapped next to relatively high voltage (would not have failed at 5 or 3.3V)

But the main valve is now leaking slightly

And the drain valve is still flowing regardless of the plunger position. top cam 'start' marks are lined up properly.

And I do not know what type/capacity/ect this system is, no marking on brine or resin tank of any kind, just a tag on the head:
blfc = 0.250 gpm
dlfc = 2.4 gpm
injector = 0
piston = high flow


So if I disassemble head and replace seals, how can I figure out how to correctly program ?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Reach4]

So if I disassemble head and replace seals, how can I figure out how to correctly program ?

I have never seen the electronics or schematic.

Post your tank size, hardness, iron, manganese, and the BLFC number from the label on the controller. It is possible to read a number on the BLFC to identify that if there is not a label.
t1.2 is default flow meter, so we will presume that is what you have unless you find out otherwise.

 

[Reach4]

And I do not know what type/capacity/ect this system is, no marking on brine or resin tank of any kind

Use a tape measure.
See http://www.softenerparts.com/kb_results.asp?ID=5 for normal choices.

Was the brine valve piston assembly replaced during the rebuild? http://www.softenerparts.com/Fleck_Model_7000_Valve_Parts_s/6799.htm

I have no experience rebuilding a Fleck valve.

http://www.chandleraz.gov/default.aspx?pageid=458
Presuming for the moment that you have 1.5 cubic ft of resin....

 

[Bannerman]

With a 2.4 GPM DLFC, I expect it will be a 10" diameter tank. While a 10" X 54" tank is common for 1.5 cuft of resin, I've seen 1 cuft softeners which utilize 10" X 35" tanks so 1.25 cuft will be installed in something in between.

The continuous drain flow usually indicates a worn/torn seal so replacing the seals, spacers and piston is advisable.

Here is a link to Dittohead's video on rebuilding the Fleck 7000SXT.

 

[rattle_snake]

Tank is 10"d x 54" tall, so looks like 1.5cu ft
10" x 54" 1.50 cu. ft. ( 48,000 grains )
Brine tank is 11" x 11" x 36"

I'm on a shared well. harness is ~120ppm = 7 grains. guessing minimal iron although I don't have a number for it or manganese.

I didn't do the last rebuild, it was done by a plumber and he did not observe or change any programming. A little concerned that seals only lasted 1 year.
This unit uses about a whole bag of salt in a month. Family of 4.

Thanks again for the help

 

[Bannerman]

10" x 54" 1.50 cu. ft. ( 48,000 grains )

While 48K grains is the total resin capacity before it has been used, salt efficiency is drastically improved by programming regeneration to occur at a lower capacity.

For example, to regenerate 45K grains capacity, would require 22.5 lbs of salt (=2000 grains/lb) whereas by programming regeneration to restore 30K grains of capacity, will require only 9 lbs of salt (=3,333 grains/lb) each regen cycle.

Pic of turbine, maybe not needed anymore.

I don't understand that statement. The Pic is not needed or the turbine? The turbine measures water flow which initiates a regeneration cycle after a set amount of water volume. If the turbine is defective, it will need to be replaced as the turbine is essential to the operation of the softener.

Edited to add: You and the other users of the well should be having the well water tested on a periodic but regular basis. Unlike a municipal water supply, there is no municipality or water company to monitor the water's safety and aesthetic qualities. Iron and manganese can substantially change the softener's programming requirements but more important, is assurance of bacterial and chemical safety for the users.

 

[ditttohead]

Agreed, you are your own municipality, do regular testing.

The 7000 turbine can last for decades under normal flow conditions. We have seen some wear out but mainly in commercial applications where they are running at higher flow rates for extended periods of time. Simply clean the magnets off. The newer turbine has an imbedded magnet so no more rust problems on the magnet itself.

Excessive wear on a 7000 or any other piston/seal spacer design is usually caused by either chlorine or other oxidant that can attack the internal rubber components, or sand/silt etc, that can scratch the piston and wear the seals out. You may want to put some sort of sediment filter ahead of your unit if this is the case.

 

[rattle_snake]

I don't understand that statement. The Pic is not needed or the turbine?

The picture. I believe Reach4 had asked for a pic of the trubine, it but looks like post was edited. I included it anyway just in case.

I tested the water before we moved in but not since. It has much less sediments than city water, but just a relative observation. can you recommend a sediment filter?

Not related to the 7000sxt, but do you see harm in horses drinking softened water (other than a waste)?
Plumbing on the house is half a$$ed, so not an easy fix. The softener was added later, so piping to barn is on soft (as are all faucets but one). Main shutoff gate valve is broken. Previous owner buried underground shutoff from well with a foot a gravel. I dug a big hole with a tractor but did not find it. bypass ball valves had to have stops cut back to close as the handles are loose on the ball, but now at least I can shut off water to house. So I have to dig up front yard until I find underground shutoff before I can do anything with barn supply....

 

[rattle_snake]

Still working on this unit. I replaced seal and spacer kit, no change drain still runs. No surprise as seals were in good shape and 1 yr old. Upon further research it was apparent that valve is discharging water because the arrows on the cam are lined up when unit thinks it is in service (display has faucet icon, time of day). When I manually turn cam to 'S' mark, the drain is not running, so seals were/are ok. I manually ran a regen cycle, the unit left arrows lined up when finished, drain running and not at the 'S'.

So I again lined up cam to 'S', did a master reset and got unit to preform SYNC. I did a manual regen cycle but again when done arrows are line up and drain runs continuously. I see that optical sensor 'home' marks (big hole and missing hole) are aligned with the arrow on the cam and cannot be indexed otherwise.

So what am I missing? I have the cam is lined up to the 'S' like in video above at time 7:26. Also first BW isn't lined up with anything on cam and no water flow. all other modes line up and work.

I see this note in service manual:
4. When returning valve to service after powerhead disassembly, manually step valve through regeneration using the extra cycle button until valve is in service.
How do I abort the regen cycle to leave the valve in service?

Brine valve is leaking, that is what caused circuit board failure. Luckily, I did write down hardness value in my paper manual copy, it was set for 34.
Thanks,

 

[Reach4]

I see this note in service manual:
4. When returning valve to service after powerhead disassembly, manually step valve through regeneration using the extra cycle button until valve is in service.
How do I abort the regen cycle to leave the valve in service?

Earlier in the manual is this:

Manually Initiating a Regeneration
1. When timer is in service, press the Extra Cycle button for 5
seconds on the main screen.
2. The timer advances to Regeneration Cycle Step #1 (rapid
rinse), and begins programmed time count down.
3. Press the Extra Cycle button once to advance valve to
Regeneration Cycle Step #2 (backwash).
4. Press the Extra Cycle button once to advance valve to
Regeneration Cycle Step #3 (brine draw & slow rinse).
5. Press the Extra Cycle button once to advance valve to
Regeneration Cycle Step #4 (brine refill).
6. Press the Extra Cycle button once more to advance the
valve back to in service.​

 

[ditttohead]

The 7000 does not have an "auto home" capability so you have to tell it where home is. You can do this by simply going into master programming and telling the system it is a filter "Fltr", the valve will "SYNC", then do it again telling the electronics it is a softener valve "DF2b". The valve will Sync again and it should line up with the "s". I can post the master programming cheat sheet tomorrow.
All other settings should be set properly at this point as well.

 

[rattle_snake]

I observed the valve as it goes thru modes. On step 1, 1st BW, the drive doesn't rotate far enough to get to the 'B' on the cam. no water flow. Next step is BD, drive rotates more than a full turn (~400 degrees) and ends up on 'D' as expected. This seems odd as 'D' as right after the (1st) 'B'. The remaining steps increment by one function as expected, except service which is falls short and is left at the arrow instead of the 'S'. In DF2B mode, the SYNC function leaves the drive at the arrow regardless of starting position. I will try setting to Fltr and report back.

thanks again for the help

 

[Bannerman]

I will try setting to Fltr and report back.

Don't just set it to 'Fltr'.

To synchronize the control, you need to follow the entire procedure which Dittohead outlined.

Since the control is currently not synchronized, the stepping cycle observations you reported above are not relevant. Once the entire synchronization procedure has been performed, then the cycling process should be correct.

 

[ditttohead]

Assuming his optical encoder repair worked. Sounds like a simple sync issue though. Keep us updated as to what happens.

 

[rattle_snake]

I finally turned my attention back to this issue and tried reprogramming dF2b -> filt ->dF2B. It worked. I though this might work because:
-The HW is unchanged (I fixed and verified HW fix)
-The SW (well, firmware) is unchanged

I work for a semiconductor company and write some imbedded code myself. I think the 'bug' in the 7000 code has something to do with absolute/relative position update/write to memory. IF mode changed, update. IF mode unchanged, well there is your problem. The SYNC function code needs some help.

Thank you Dittohead for the fix and everyone for the help.

So post mortem the issue was:
1) brine valve leaks, get sensor wheel wet
2) sensor wheel transfers water to PCB, corrodes PCB trace/via
3) Sensor fails, out of sync
4) SW bug prevents re-SYNC

I found another bug with this units firmware. IF you apply power and hold down up/down the unit will lock up. This should be cycle button for hard reset, but I pushed wrong button and LCD had random elements on. Power cycling the unit did not clear so I swore at it and left it for awhile. This time allowed power supply capacitors to fully discharge and allow the Atmel processor to properly reset. though I had bricked this thing, hence the long delay to this thread.

 

[ditttohead]

You can jump the capacitor on the board with a piece of metal to discharge it, fixes it every time. The board has been greatly updated since your version. Congrats on the fix!

 

[Reach4]

You can jump the capacitor on the board with a piece of metal to discharge it, fixes it every time. The board has been greatly updated since your version. Congrats on the fix!

I would maybe use a resistor between 5 ohms to 1000 ohms if I had one handy. A hard short across the cap will probably not hurt it, but limiting the current makes sure.