Chris Haas
New Member
Hello all. I'm brand new to the site, but I'm nearly at my wit's end.
Bottom line up front: I need to learn how a combined radiant heat system and domestic hot water system should be properly plumbed. I apologize for this very lengthy post, but PLEASE read it all before replying. A lot of work has been done (at a price of over $4,000 so far), seemingly only to get me back where I started.
Facts:
1) The home, built in 2005 (including the radiant heat system), is fed by well water.
2) Hot water for the radiant floor heat and for domestic use is supplied by the same GE 80-gallon electric water heater. This water heater was installed in May 2015 - just 18 months before I bought the home.
3) To the best of my knowledge, the water heater is NOT equipped with a mixer valve, and the home is not equipped with a crossover valve.
4) I have yet to find anyone in my new area who knows/understands my home’s system. All are intimately familiar with boilers.
Background: I purchased my current home three months ago (in November 2016). I chose the home for several reasons, not the least of which was the radiant heat. I admit I knew very little about such systems, but I was impressed with what I read about them online. It has been a nightmare ever since.
Shortly after moving in, I noticed the water we were using was brown with a great deal of sediment – mostly when using hot water. Being a basic DIYer (my expertise is Navy fighter jets and fixing my own cars), I set about to flush my hot water and well water pressure tanks. The drain on the hot water heater tank clogged quickly. I successfully freed up the clog using a bicycle tire pump. It worked better than I thought possible, but it’s a process best shared on a separate thread upon request. Discharge from the hot water tank was unbelievable. Large scaly deposits, black sludge, etc. Eventually, after draining countless gallons, the water coming out became pale brown. At this point I shifted attention to the pressure tank for my well water. Surprisingly, this water came out crystal clear. So I went back to the hot water heater and drained many more gallons, although never achieving crystal clear water.
Now to the well water itself. Out of the blue one day, I observed a significant drop in water pressure. I narrowed it down to a clogged sediment cartridge - the only source of filtration at the time. I recalled the seller left us a replacement sub-micron cartridge. I changed the filter and restored pressure to the house. Problem solved – temporarily. A little more than two days later, the system pressure was low again. Thinking the problem was the sub-micron filter, I purchased and installed a standard 30-micron filter. Problem solved again – this time for about 10 days before clogging. Time to call a pro.
After finding a local water quality expert I could trust (the first two were remarkably bad), I had the standard sediment filter removed and a water softener system (plus a UV light, separate subject) installed in its place. The installer also noted the pressure switch for my well was set too low, which he adjusted. The difference was remarkable. I suddenly was able to take comfortable showers, and the water from my faucets was crustal clear. However, the installer did warn me I still had an issue with high total dissolved solids (TDS). Knowing I was a DIYer, he suggested I install my own reverse osmosis (RO) system under the sink for drinking, cooking and making ice.
I know – we’re supposed to talking about radiant heat. Just stick with me here. I warned you this was a long post, but I felt all of the background was important. It will all come together. I promise.
So three weeks ago I installed my own RO system. The taste of my water was now terrific. My coffee tasted better. Everything was wonderful. Then several days ago, my new RO system became noticeably slow to produce water. Finally, this morning I barely got a half-cup out of it before it slowed to a drip. Rather than tell you everything I did to find a cause, just know that I eventually determined the filters in the RO system are fouled.
In an effort to have some drinking water on hand, I broke out the old Brita water pitcher we used to use. I still had a brand new cartridge for it, which I soaked and installed. I put the Brita under the faucet and tuned on the cold water. I filled the reservoir, only to see the water was nasty brown again visible sediment. The trust I had in the guy who installed my water softener was suddenly fading. HOWEVER, after a few more observations, I don’t believe a water softener malfunction is to blame.
After seeing the nasty water in the Brita reservoir, I filled a plastic cup with what was supposed to be cold water. Lo and behold, my “cold” water was actually quite warm. My first thought was hot-cold crossover. I eliminated any of the faucets as the cause. At the water heater I found that the tee for the cold water supply was very warm. After a few checks, I eliminated the hot water heater as the problem. This is when I finally discovered what I believe is the problem. The warm return water from the radiant heat system was feeding the cold water supply. The return line from the radiant heat joins the supply line from the well water before going to the water heater. Basically, all the water (and associated sediment) in the 11-year-old radiant heat system is mixing with clean water from the well and water softener.
I feel like I was terribly deceived by a few folks during the purchasing process for this home, but buyers have little recourse. All I hope for now is a final solution. Standing by for questions and answers.
Bottom line up front: I need to learn how a combined radiant heat system and domestic hot water system should be properly plumbed. I apologize for this very lengthy post, but PLEASE read it all before replying. A lot of work has been done (at a price of over $4,000 so far), seemingly only to get me back where I started.
Facts:
1) The home, built in 2005 (including the radiant heat system), is fed by well water.
2) Hot water for the radiant floor heat and for domestic use is supplied by the same GE 80-gallon electric water heater. This water heater was installed in May 2015 - just 18 months before I bought the home.
3) To the best of my knowledge, the water heater is NOT equipped with a mixer valve, and the home is not equipped with a crossover valve.
4) I have yet to find anyone in my new area who knows/understands my home’s system. All are intimately familiar with boilers.
Background: I purchased my current home three months ago (in November 2016). I chose the home for several reasons, not the least of which was the radiant heat. I admit I knew very little about such systems, but I was impressed with what I read about them online. It has been a nightmare ever since.
Shortly after moving in, I noticed the water we were using was brown with a great deal of sediment – mostly when using hot water. Being a basic DIYer (my expertise is Navy fighter jets and fixing my own cars), I set about to flush my hot water and well water pressure tanks. The drain on the hot water heater tank clogged quickly. I successfully freed up the clog using a bicycle tire pump. It worked better than I thought possible, but it’s a process best shared on a separate thread upon request. Discharge from the hot water tank was unbelievable. Large scaly deposits, black sludge, etc. Eventually, after draining countless gallons, the water coming out became pale brown. At this point I shifted attention to the pressure tank for my well water. Surprisingly, this water came out crystal clear. So I went back to the hot water heater and drained many more gallons, although never achieving crystal clear water.
Now to the well water itself. Out of the blue one day, I observed a significant drop in water pressure. I narrowed it down to a clogged sediment cartridge - the only source of filtration at the time. I recalled the seller left us a replacement sub-micron cartridge. I changed the filter and restored pressure to the house. Problem solved – temporarily. A little more than two days later, the system pressure was low again. Thinking the problem was the sub-micron filter, I purchased and installed a standard 30-micron filter. Problem solved again – this time for about 10 days before clogging. Time to call a pro.
After finding a local water quality expert I could trust (the first two were remarkably bad), I had the standard sediment filter removed and a water softener system (plus a UV light, separate subject) installed in its place. The installer also noted the pressure switch for my well was set too low, which he adjusted. The difference was remarkable. I suddenly was able to take comfortable showers, and the water from my faucets was crustal clear. However, the installer did warn me I still had an issue with high total dissolved solids (TDS). Knowing I was a DIYer, he suggested I install my own reverse osmosis (RO) system under the sink for drinking, cooking and making ice.
I know – we’re supposed to talking about radiant heat. Just stick with me here. I warned you this was a long post, but I felt all of the background was important. It will all come together. I promise.
So three weeks ago I installed my own RO system. The taste of my water was now terrific. My coffee tasted better. Everything was wonderful. Then several days ago, my new RO system became noticeably slow to produce water. Finally, this morning I barely got a half-cup out of it before it slowed to a drip. Rather than tell you everything I did to find a cause, just know that I eventually determined the filters in the RO system are fouled.
In an effort to have some drinking water on hand, I broke out the old Brita water pitcher we used to use. I still had a brand new cartridge for it, which I soaked and installed. I put the Brita under the faucet and tuned on the cold water. I filled the reservoir, only to see the water was nasty brown again visible sediment. The trust I had in the guy who installed my water softener was suddenly fading. HOWEVER, after a few more observations, I don’t believe a water softener malfunction is to blame.
After seeing the nasty water in the Brita reservoir, I filled a plastic cup with what was supposed to be cold water. Lo and behold, my “cold” water was actually quite warm. My first thought was hot-cold crossover. I eliminated any of the faucets as the cause. At the water heater I found that the tee for the cold water supply was very warm. After a few checks, I eliminated the hot water heater as the problem. This is when I finally discovered what I believe is the problem. The warm return water from the radiant heat system was feeding the cold water supply. The return line from the radiant heat joins the supply line from the well water before going to the water heater. Basically, all the water (and associated sediment) in the 11-year-old radiant heat system is mixing with clean water from the well and water softener.
I feel like I was terribly deceived by a few folks during the purchasing process for this home, but buyers have little recourse. All I hope for now is a final solution. Standing by for questions and answers.