Well / Pond water system design

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Jumper1, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Jumper1

    Jumper1 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Kansas
    HELP... Need help designing rural water system.

    Here are the facts:
    I have been on a pond purification system for 25 years. It has a 12 gpm pump that feeds into two 100 gallon "flocculation" tanks. Prior to the tanks I have two chemical pumps that add chlorine and alum into the water line. The water flows through a metered carbon filter prior to distribution. The system worked great .. Water quality was good.

    I recently had to add a shallow well system because the pond need to be drained and rebuilt. The pump provides 13+ gpm. Unfortunately, the well water is hard and I need to add a water softener.

    Well water analysis:
    No bacteria
    Hardness=16gpg
    calcium= 100 mg/l
    Magnesium=7 mg/l
    Iron=1.1mg/l
    Manganese = 2.3 mg/l
    TDS= 399
    pH= 7.2

    The House has 3.5 baths with multi head showers

    I would like to be able to use both of the water systems. I plan on installing a Fleck 7000sxt 48,000 WS. I plan on running on the well water until the pond fills (1-2 years). Then use the pond water as my primary source. The well would be used as a backup after large rains when the water retains high levels of sediment. Outside irrigation would remain on the pond system (prior to water system).

    Questions:
    Where should I install the water softener ... before or after the carbon filter?
    Should I use a larger (2 cu ft) tank?
    What ppm should the chlorine be at when on the well system?
    Will the chlorine help remove the iron?
    How would you design this type of system?

    Thanks.
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You need to post much more info. The link below will tell you what info.

    http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/softeners/sizingchart.htm

    Yes the correct volume of chlorine combined with the proper size retention (tank or tanks etc.) to get the correct length of contact time will treat the iron and manganese so the softener doesn't have to deal with them. The chlorine will create oxidation 'sediment' (rust etc.) that will have to be filtered out before the softener. If you have the right filter size now, you may be able to use it.

    You may be able to insert the softener into the present system after the carbon filter. You need to tell us what size filter and what brand and model control valve. Are the f.loc tanks open air (depressurized) or closed (pressurized)?
  3. Jumper1

    Jumper1 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Kansas
    The floc tanks are 120 gal each and are closed. The filter is a 9"x 44" Culligan Cullar. The filter has a Culligan 3/4" bypass and a Culligan Power Valve control. I have 1" lines from the pump thru to the last floc tank and 3/4" from the filter through the house.

    The house 3.5 baths. UPC requires a flow rate of 25+ gpm. Which is tough because the pumps are only supplying 12+gpm.
  4. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I suggest that filter is a 3/4 cuft in an 8" x 44" tank; that is ID size. IMO it is too small for the iron and manganese levels in your well water.

    You haven't said how many people or what size softener your compensated hardness requires but... 3.5 baths with multiple showerheads says maybe an 18 gpm constant SFR and that would be a 3.0 cuft softener. Depending on the number of people and the compensated hardness, it may or may not be large enough. IMO the UPC would have required a larger than 3/4" pipe and all the flow codes are applied as if you run water at every fixture and appliance at the same time, and no one lives like that so IMO, I'd use the number of people and fixtures that usually are run at the same time.

    How do you know what output you get from the pumps? And why more than one pump?
  5. Jumper1

    Jumper1 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Kansas
    2 full time and 2 part time people in the house. I have a pump in the pond and one in a well. The well has the hardness and the iron issues. The well pump measured 15 gpm before the carbon filter and 12 gpm after it. The pond is current dry and cannot be tested but use to generate 12gpm.

    I thought most of the iron would be removed by the chlorine in the floc tanks and it would settle to the bottom. The water softener would remove the rest and the carbon filter would remove the chlorine. I thought the carbon filter would be places AFTER the water softener so the chlorine would remove any iron bacteria.

    You are correct ... The carbon filter has .6 cu ft of media and is good for 3.5 gpm (rsf).

    I was planning on a Fleck 7000SXT with a 2 cu ft tank. Will this be adequate. What size carbon filter do I need and should it be placed before or after the water softener. Finally, can I bypass the water softener when the pond recovers?

    Thanks again for your help!
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You have to oxidize all the iron, manganese and all bacteria in the water prior to the carbon filter and softener. A softer will not work on dirty water. Once oxidized you need to filter out the dirt caused by the chlorination and I suggest a 2.0 cuft Centaur carbon which will remove the chlorine too. I would want the chlorine gone before it gets into the softener because it isn't good for resin. IRB etc. is killed by chlorine.

    You can by pass a softener anytime but I would not want to use surface/pond water when I had a well and I fon't think many others would either. Chlorinating surface water can create chlorine by product that are serious health concerns. They are called THMs (trihalomethanes) and are carcinogenic.
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