UGGGH A floor joist is in my way!

Discussion in 'Remodel Forum & Blog' started by jpb116, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. jpb116

    jpb116 New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I'm installing new platform tub and have discovered there is a floor joist DEAD CENTER under the tub long ways. What can be done now about the drain assembly? I can't imagine I'm the only person this has ever happened too. So, can anyone help with suggestions?:(
  2. whats up

    whats up New Member

    Messages:
    6
    notch the top of the joist,then run 2+8 goeing the other direction to carry the load of the notched joist
  3. jpb116

    jpb116 New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    thanks for helping ...but

    not sure I understand the answer...
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,237
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    If it is an IPS drain fitting, then you can notch the joist at the opening and then angle the shoe to the side, After you connect the trap, then run the overflow pipe up to the opening using whatever angle fittings you need to get it positioned properly.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2010
  5. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    Plumbers!

    As the friendly neighbourhood carpenter, I just want to remind you that notching is only allowed if you're close-ish to one end of the joist. No notches in the middle 3rd of the joist's span.

    Also, in terms of how big your notch can be: no deeper than 1/6th the depth of the joist.


    If that's not enough room for the fitting... you have two choices:

    1 - redesign your layout so that the tub doesn't line up with a joist

    2 do this:


    EDIT: if your joists are supported, within 3' away, you can do the 1st drawing. But if their support is more than 3' away, you're stuck doing the doubled-up joists on each side, like the 2nd drawing.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 12, 2008
  6. GregO

    GregO Member

    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Virginia
    floor joist

    If there's room, I'd consider furring the wall in to allow the tub to "miss" the joist altogether. I've built (glued and screwed) additional 2x3 and 2x4 interior walls to help with this sort of scenario. I always cringe when I hear about notching or drilling joists because of the shoddy results I've witnessed all too often. Greg
  7. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Frenchie, wouldn't you want to double up those 2x's on either side of the cut joist?

    Jason
  8. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    If it was a wide hole - cutting more than one joist - then yes, you'd have to sister the joists on either side, along their entire length; and also double up the headers (the 2x running at 90 degrees, that the cut joist hangs from).

    For a small hole like this, only one joist cut out, singles are fine.
  9. statjunk

    statjunk DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    542
    Ditto what Frenchie said. I'd like to add that if you have your cross members (not sure of the exact term for them) already outfitted with the hangers it makes the job a whole heck of a lot easier. Then you just pound it in run screws into the adjacent joists.

    Tom
  10. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    The cross members are called headers - I guess because they're positionned kinda like headers in a wall opening.


    BTW, you shouldn't use screws on hangers - screws are stiffer, but more brittle - stronger in terms of pullout, but generally VERY weak in shear.

    The manufacturer will specify the appropriate nail.

    example:

    http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/nails.asp
  11. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Well, you do learn something new every day; thanks.
  12. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    Really? I'm surprised you don't know that, being in Florida, with your hurricane codes... S'why framing is always done with nails, also sheathing. Nails will pull partway out, bend... but hold. Screws'll just snap. Not only because the shank diameter's smaller, but also the hardening process (so you don't strip out the head) weakens the metal.

    There's exceptions - timberlocks have a rated shear strength, as do ledgerlocks, and simpson makes some structural screws - but they're pretty specialized items, and pricey. Can be useful for situations where you need a lot of pullout resistance, though - like to attach strapping, over foam, for a rainscreen wall, in a high-wind zone; or for attaching deck ledgers.

    But AFAIK, nobody in the US makes one that you can use in a hanger, or hurricane strap, or whatever.
  13. AZ Contractor

    AZ Contractor In the Trades

    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I beg to differ.

    You're adding 1.5 times the load on each joist adjacent to the cut joist when you cut that 'center' joist. I'm pretty sure the floor joists are rated to carry loads up to their max and sized accordingly.

    By cutting that 'center' joist you're more likely than not exceeding the max load on the adjacent joists.

    I would sister another joist to them.

    How much does a tub full of water weigh?

    Add that to the max load on those joists and you're probably looking for trouble.
  14. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    The amount that I don't know vastly exceeds the amount that I do in all fields, and the ratio is getting worse... However, I did know that Simpson specifies specific nails for their products, just never knew why (other than for crass marketing reasons). I'm a "gotta know why" kind of guy.
  15. statjunk

    statjunk DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    542
    The reason I said use screws is that I've had to header off joists twice in on my current project in the last year. Neither time was I able to get a hammer in there and definetly not my framing nailer. So I had to use screws. I guess I should have used deck screws. Next time.

    Tom
  16. Nate R

    Nate R New Member

    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Maybe I'm wrong, but my line of thinking agrees w/ AZ.

    Cast Iron tub is what, 300 lbs? And many tubs can hold 35 gals of water w/ no one in them, correct? 20 gals of water is about 167 lbs. Add a 200 lb person and you're looking at 667 lbs total over those 3 joists for the tub.

    Also, assuming the tub is 2.5 X 5, you're looking at over 53lbs/PSF
  17. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades


    Hmm... I'm actually reconsidering, now. When I posted, I was trying to remember @ what point you start having to double up the trimmer. My code book wasn't handy, I just recall being told not to bother, a few times in my life, framing openings for toilets and/or chimneys... but then framing's not my main thing, not by a long shot. Did a quick google, found the diagram attached below.

    On the other hand, when I look in my code book - because it is handy right now - this is what I find:

    so far so good...

    uh-oh...

    So it looks like y'all are right - my earlier comments & advice are only true in very specific instances, when it's near the end of the joist span.



    POST SKIMMERS, PLEASE NOTE:

    THIS DRAWING IS WRONG ABOUT ALLOWING SINGLE TRIMMERS FOR HEADER SPANS UNDER 32". POSTED FOR EXPLANATORY REASONS, ONLY.

    Attached Files:

  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,313
    Location:
    New England
    Assuming 16"oc, the opening is less than 32"...more like 30.5" or so...sistering the outside wouldn't hurt.
  19. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    Yeah, what I thought - but if you read my post, with the code excerpt - that illustration is wrong.

    You can only use single trimmers if the opening is less than 3' away from the end of the joist span.
  20. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    It also says that end nailing is acceptable. I thought they had to have hangers, no?

    In my house, built in 1923, on the end of a 13 foot span of 2x8 joists, there is a single 2x4 header supporting a single trimmer. It's within the last 24 inches or so of the bearing point. I never liked it, but it works. It looks original. Odd.

    Jason
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2008
Similar Threads: UGGGH floor
Forum Title Date
Remodel Forum & Blog Basement Subfloor and Wall Insulation Dec 11, 2014
Remodel Forum & Blog Basement Finish Flooring Questions Nov 22, 2014
Remodel Forum & Blog Floor joist insulation in crawl space Nov 21, 2014
Remodel Forum & Blog Going to tile but first need floor insulated - best product Sep 15, 2014
Remodel Forum & Blog Bathroom remodel: underfloor heating and related decisions May 13, 2014

Share This Page