Trying to drain my evacuation pipe on softener

[Royerm]

Hi Folks....

I've had a few occasion where my drain pipe that is ejecting my water
outside has frozen. It happens exactly where the outside and the inside meets.
The outside has a good slope so no problem, but I suspect that my inside keeps
water as I'm going up from the softener and that's what creating the freezing.

So, I was thinking of possibly an automatic method to drain the pipe once my
softener is done..

Any idea????? Cheers

 

[Reach4]

One way would be to make the pipe leading to the outside more sloped. Bigger diameter would help, but you might even consider a/another vacuum breaker mounted high on the drain line. Another thing that comes to mind is a tee to a higher hose that dumps into a drain only if the outside gets blocked. That could also serve as a source of air to break the vacuum.

Just an idea. I am not a pro. My softener goes into a floor drain which goes to the septic tank.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Royerm]

View attachment 32699 One way would be to make the pipe leading to the outside more sloped. Bigger diameter would help, but you might even consider a/another vacuum breaker mounted high on the drain line. Another thing that comes to mind is a tee to a higher hose that dumps into a drain only if the outside gets blocked. That could also serve as a source of air to break the vacuum.

Just an idea. I am not a pro. My softener goes into a floor drain which goes to the septic tank.

My situation is that i'm going at the high loop from softener in your example, plenty of slope going out
but freezing at that high loop position....

I have a floor drain but i'm trying to stay away from pumping the regen in the septic tank...Great drawing by the way.
Thx.

 

[Bannerman]

You are located in an area that experiences sub freezing temperatures throughout most of the winter. While the drain water contains some salt thereby lowering its freezing temperature, the salt contained will not prevent freezing at the outdoor temperatures experienced.

By including a high loop, you are attempting to drain the water faster than it will freeze. As the drain water is propelled under your water system's pressure, it is already flowing faster than it would while flowing by gravity. When the regeneration cycle has completed, some water droplets will continue to remain in the line and will freeze.

Your septic system is intended to process the sewage and grey water exiting your home. The best method to prevent the drain from freezing is to keep the entire drain line within the heated space, discharging into the septic system through a floor drain or an alternate drain, at least during the winter months.

Unless your floor drain is located above the height of the inlet to the septic tank, your floor drain may not be discharging into your septic system. In most homes with septics, the sewer line exiting to the septic tank is located high on the basement wall, often near the basement ceiling. Sometimes the floor drain is routed to a dry well or it could be routed to a sump pump which then could discharge outside or, could pump up into a line flowing to the septic system.

 

[Reach4]

I agree with Bannerman.

If you do want to stay with a purely outside discharge, I would add an "atmospheric vacuum breaker" at the top of your drain loop, presuming that spot and everything before is in a no-freezing area. This lets the last part of the water come out much faster ,with less time to freeze. You can find an inexpensive atmospheric vacuum breaker with NPT threads

and a pair of NPT to barbed adapters.

And of course that discharge would need to be high enough that ice would not build from the ground, as a stalagmite, to the tubing/pipe exit.

 

[Royerm]

If this existed or I have not found it yet, but it would work for what I'm trying to do...

 

[ENIGMA-2]

I have a floor drain but i'm trying to stay away from pumping the regen in the septic tank...Great drawing by the way.
Thx.

Shouldn't be a problem. I've been draining my softener to my septic tank since the house was new (1978). Never had a problem.
If your not having problems with your septic system, should not be a problem.

As for the outside drain freezing, if this is something you wish to continue, consider piping the discharge to a homemade dry well (basically a hole in the ground filled with stones). If it's below the frost line it would never freeze. Even if it's above the frost line, it would probably not freeze as the flow is very limited and the water warm. My guess is no worries whenever the temperature stays above -10°. I base this on a dry well I have running from my garage floor. Its never froze, even at -20°.

 

[djbarber2]

Hi all, I have a similar problem where my softener discharge has started freezing up over the last couple years. Pictures are attached of my system. I have 1/2" PVC running from softener overhead, then down into a pre-existing 1-1/2" PVC pipe (installed by builder for a greensand filter, now out of service). Didn't have any issues first couple years of operation, now freezes up in winter (had one instance where discharge water went back up through an air emittance valve installed on the greensand discharge line and leaked down the wall). Note that I believe the location of the 1-1/2" PVC discharge pipe was chosen to be under the deck originally ( it's ~10' from the greensand filter), however, I built a larger deck so I think I can put the discharge immediately behind the softener. Looking for advice on how to remedy...any thoughts? I was thinking of re-locating the drain line directly behind the softener to get higher velocity flow.

 

[Reach4]

Draining into your sewer/septic would be the normal course of action. However this outside exit could work if you put a vacuum breaker near the high spot in the path to admit air, and let gravity drain the pipe before the water can freeze. You would need to maintain downward slope after the vacuum breaker.

If your drain dribbles between regens, due to a bad seal in the softener, this would not do it for you. In that case, you would need to put some kind of heater tape into the pipe. If that did not impound a big pool of water that can freeze, then it might work for you.

See the idea in #6 for an alternate path to the laundry tub if the outside path gets blocked.

 

[djbarber2]

Draining into your sewer/septic would be the normal course of action. However this outside exit could work if you put a vacuum breaker near the high spot in the path to admit air, and let gravity drain the pipe before the water can freeze. You would need to maintain downward slope after the vacuum breaker.

If your drain dribbles between regens, due to a bad seal in the softener, this would not do it for you. In that case, you would need to put some kind of heater tape into the pipe. If that did not impound a big pool of water that can freeze, then it might work for you.

See the idea in #6 for an alternate path to the laundry tub if the outside path gets blocked.

Thanks for the advice, any thoughts on re-routing the discharge to immediately behind the unit (rather than going up and over)? Wasn't sure if there were any issues with that...I could gravity drain it there too with an vacuum breaker, thinking it would be shorter path/high velocity on exit.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for the advice, any thoughts on re-routing the discharge to immediately behind the unit (rather than going up and over)? Wasn't sure if there were any issues with that...I could gravity drain it there too with an vacuum breaker, thinking it would be shorter path/high velocity on exit.

Shorter is probably better, but the flow is only 2.4 gpm for a 10x54 softener. If draining outside, a steeper 3/4 inch pipe in the last foot would be more likely to be able to drain out before freezing.