Toilet Vent Distance @ 6' - 9", bad idea?

Users who are viewing this thread

djsoot

New Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
San Jose, CA
I am in California and am considering moving a toilet from one side of bathroom to the other.

The 3" toilet drain line branches off the 3" main drain trunk; it is dedicated to toilet only.
The current drain line has a vent that is 16.5" downstream of the toilet drain.
When moved to the other side of the room the toilet will be 6'-9" from the vent.
I am aware that UPC says vents can be no more than 6' from toilet.

The questions I have
1. @ 6'-9" will there be any potential negative mechanical affects to the toilet, operation, draining (e.g.
Example: gurgling, not flushing, vacuum, etc.
2. If I were to put in a 1.5" vent in this 6'-9" area (1 ft from toilet); would this alleviate any potential side effects; would 1.5" introduce any? The 1.5" vent would be vented to the roof.

Any advice you can share, I am kind of mixed as I plan on staying with this house for quite some time and would like to save myself the time/hassle on permitting and venting if there are no consequences beyond the 6' range.

I am hoping I could do a straight drain extension without venting modification given we are talking 9" inches here. But want to get others take on this, particularily if serious mechanical consequences I will be cursing myself out for later.

Thanks for any advice/expertise you can share


A - 3" Main Drain Trunk
B - 2" Vent thru roof
C - Existing 3" Toilet Drain @ 16.5" from B
D - New 3" Toilet Drain @ 6' - 9" from B

toilet.jpg
 
Last edited:

Bluebinky

Member
Messages
588
Reaction score
16
Points
18
Location
Des Moines, WA
Sorry for preaching, but...

- No permit? That gives us DIYers a bad reputation. If anything, we should want to pull a permit just so someone else will look at it and hopefully catch any silly mistakes.

- If it is not to code, it will need to be corrected before the property can be sold. Do you really want to have to deal with that when you are 80, or give that "gift" to your heirs?

Anyway... question two is what I'd be focusing on.
 

djsoot

New Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
San Jose, CA
I don't want to be hassled with permit.....but will do it to code. I want to know why the 6' max under CA Plumbing Code (aka UPC adaption). Under IPC I can be 12' away. Another reference mentioned 2x diameter plus 2". This makes sense from the standpoint of 1/4" rise and wanting the pipe to have the ability to vent with the flush acting as a "stagnant air mover" as as to avoid dangerous sewer gas levels in a longer unvented pipe section. I would not believe the toilet would incur syphoning issues; particulary @ +9".

I am just curious what side effects folks have encountered on distancing venting (at my length) but at what point does the code kick in to justify "maximum distance". Hoping other DIY may have had woes on correcting these kinds of problems so I can learn from.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
A toilet, by itself, will flush just fine without a vent. It's the other things on the line that may suffer by the rapidly moving, big slug of water and waste.
 

djsoot

New Member
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
San Jose, CA
Are there ill side effects of not venting this per the code? Anyone know of any reason not to go ahead with the added 9"? THE IPC has max at 12'; why would this be any different especially for California?
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,599
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
Well, for one thing, in my opinion the IPC is a "code of convenience" adopted by "lazy plumbers" who want to do things the "easy way". That is the reason they pulled out of the merger with the UPC. But, codes are sometimes written to prevent the worse case scenario. In this case a toilet because it only works because of siphoning, does not depend on a vent.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
Without a proper vent, a flushing toilet can siphon other traps. A dry trap can let sewer gas, flies, bugs, and possibly other things into the home. If it's the only thing on that line, it may not be an issue. That would be the only 'problem' other than making the inspector happy.
 

Nukeman

Nuclear Engineer
Messages
707
Reaction score
1
Points
18
Location
VA
Under IPC, the distance to vent for a toilet is actually unlimited. The vents for the other traps should protect them from the toilet and the toilet doesn't need a vent to function. The only spot where you might get into trouble without a vent on the toilet line (assuming everything else is vented properly) is when you have multiple toilets connecting to the same line and the water level in one bowl could decrease when flushing the other toilet.

Personally, I would get the permit and try to get it vented within code. However, it will work fine with what you have.
 

Tom Sawyer

In the Trades
Messages
3,625
Reaction score
34
Points
48
Location
Maine
Well, for one thing, in my opinion the IPC is a "code of convenience" adopted by "lazy plumbers" who want to do things the "easy way". That is the reason they pulled out of the merger with the UPC. But, codes are sometimes written to prevent the worse case scenario. In this case a toilet because it only works because of siphoning, does not depend on a vent.

Yep, coupled with PEX, CSST, flexi supplies, plastic traps and a host of other fast, cheap and easy products I figure that I can just hire Chimpanzee's rather than bother with licensed plumbers. Chimp's work for banana's you know

When I die I want this on my grave stone "Toilets don't need vents"
 
Last edited:

Bluebinky

Member
Messages
588
Reaction score
16
Points
18
Location
Des Moines, WA
Yep, coupled with PEX, CSST, flexi supplies, plastic traps and a host of other fast, cheap and easy products I figure that I can just hire Chimpanzee's rather than bother with licensed plumbers. Chimp's work for banana's you know

When I die I want this on my grave stone "Toilets don't need vents"
You mean "Toilets don't need vents, except when they do"

All those cheap and easy things you mention do have their place. Nothing to do with what code you are under...

But, for me at least, learning the UPC first makes the IPC seem kinda iffy. The IPC guys probably (mistakenly) feel the same way about the UPC.
 

Tom Sawyer

In the Trades
Messages
3,625
Reaction score
34
Points
48
Location
Maine
No, I mean toilets don't need vents. Even though the UPC still requires a toilet to be vented in truth since a toilet is a self siphoning fixture it has no need for a vent at all. I work under both the IPC and the UPC because I'm on the Maine, NH border and although I prefer the UPC there are some things in it that need to be changed and IMO the toilet vent is one of those things. It only adds to the cost of the job and has no real purpose.

Those things do indeed have their place. They allow anybody with a hatch back and about 40 dollars worth of tools to call himself a plumber :(

They drive wages and profits down

They allow Chimpanzee's to become plumbers virtually overnight

They give home owners and handy hacks the false impression that they know what they are doing

They are destroying the plumbing trade
 

Bluebinky

Member
Messages
588
Reaction score
16
Points
18
Location
Des Moines, WA
Those things do indeed have their place. They allow anybody with a hatch back and about 40 dollars worth of tools to call himself a plumber :(

They drive wages and profits down

They allow Chimpanzee's to become plumbers virtually overnight

They give home owners and handy hacks the false impression that they know what they are doing

They are destroying the plumbing trade
Every trade gets "disrupted" eventually. Be happy that plumbing can't be off-shored to Elbonia, like engineering can -- but somehow, I still have a job making more money that ever...
 

Tom Sawyer

In the Trades
Messages
3,625
Reaction score
34
Points
48
Location
Maine
More like on shore as hoards of illegal aliens without licenses are stealing the food off your table
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks