Thanks for the prior help! New question about flange.

[spartan91]

I was able to secure a compression flange for my basement toilet after all the great advice I received. I purchased a Toto Drake on Terry's advice and got the brilliant idea to put the new toilet in the main bathroom and move the existing toilet in there down to the basement.

Here is my new question/problem: 1 year ago this upstairs toilet (which is now downstairs but I doubt that matters) had a slow leak that caused water to rot drywall underneath. The handyman said the flange was too low and did some work to raise it.

When I removed the toilet the wax seal looked like it had 'melted' away from the front of the flange. I know it didn't but that is the best way to describe it. The basement toilet had the ring all the way around it still. That is all I am comparing it to.

It was apparent that the seal again had a very minor leak. This might explain a very slow drip I could hear when in my bathroom but attributed it to the humidifier.
Based on the pic is it ok to install the toilet as is or do I need to do anything first?

I am concerned about the gap in front. Would it make sense to break a wax ring and put that above the gap? Would that just lead to a mess of wax falling down below eventually? One wax ring or two? Wax ring with the reinforced funnel or without?

It's ceramic tile on the upper level of a tri level home.

Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated! Well, this is the internet, maybe not all. Lol

 

[spartan91]

Just to clarify....I meant break a wax ring to cover the gap and use another one or two for the flange.

 

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[Reach4]

Is this flange level? It looks like the flange may be touching the floor from about 9:30 to 1:30 pm the clock and is suspended elsewhere. I don't know what I would do, but I might be wondering if I could fill the area under the flange with something more substantial than wax. I am not a pro, but I don't think I would be comfortable with that all-PVC flange cantilevered like that.

That area below the flange is wood construction? What are the screws at 8:30 and 4:00 screwed into-- is there wood under there? If so, I am wondering if you could get some kind of non-shrinking patching compound in there. http://www.quikrete.com/productlines/NonShrinkGeneralPurposeGrout.asp or http://www.quikrete.com/productlines/NonShrinkPrecisionGrout.asp maybe?

Before gluing your all-PVC closet flange in place, I suspect you would have gotten some advice to add a spacer of some kind and to use a closet flange with a stainless steel ring. I hope somebody has some good suggestion in working with what you have. Maybe you could make a side view photo. Is the bottom of the flange the same height as the top of the nearby tile?

 

[spartan91]

Is this flange level? It looks like the flange may be touching the floor from about 9:30 to 1:30 pm the clock and is suspended elsewhere. I don't know what I would do, but I might be wondering if I could fill the area under the flange with something more substantial than wax. I am not a pro, but I don't think I would be comfortable with that all-PVC flange cantilevered like that.

That area below the flange is wood construction? What are the screws at 8:30 and 4:00 screwed into-- is there wood under there? If so, I am wondering if you could get some kind of non-shrinking patching compound in there. http://www.quikrete.com/productlines/NonShrinkGeneralPurposeGrout.asp maybe?

Before gluing your all-PVC closet flange in place, I suspect you would have gotten some advice to add a spacer of some kind and to use a closet flange with a stainless steel ring. I hope somebody has some good suggestion in working with what you have. Maybe you could make a side view photo. Is the bottom of the flange the same height as the top of the nearby tile?

Thanks for the fast reply. I didn't do anything to the pipes yet. It is as I found it. Last year the handyman put the flange in place. The 4 and 8 screws aren't secured. I'm guessing the 10 and 2 ones are through the wood sub floor. I think the tile ends at the flange but I can't say for sure without un screwing it. The flange is above the tile as shown in the pics. The floor level pic was taken at 2 o'clock.

 

[Reach4]

On that new bottom close-up, what is the white smile-shaped arc? Is that a loose piece of PVC scrap, or is it part of something more substantial?

It's too bad you can't lift that flange out. The primer dye in the throat of the flange is in a strange place. Is there a second piece in there?

 

[hj]

That white "smile" is the hub of the elbow beneath the flange. What "gap"are you referring to, because originally you stated that it was in the wax ring which you would discard anyway. IF the flange is too high for the toilet, the wax ring will be squeezed out of the gap between it and the toilet which might look like it was 'melted" out.

 

[spartan91]

That white "smile" is the hub of the elbow beneath the flange. What "gap"are you referring to, because originally you stated that it was in the wax ring which you would discard anyway. IF the flange is too high for the toilet, the wax ring will be squeezed out of the gap between it and the toilet which might look like it was 'melted" out.

Yes that is part of the pipe.
I'm concerned that the gap between the floor and the flange in the front will lead to problems. In a perfect world, wouldn't there be flooring semi-snug to the pipe to allow for better seals/anchoring? I'm also thinking that somehow that gap between the floor and the flange helped to create the situation of the wax ring not having a good seal in front, but maybe it was an install mistake.

Can I just put a thick wax ring in and see how it performs over time, checking the ceiling under for water? It still would only have 2 screws anchoring it from the back. I will check and see if the repair flanges with the wide anchor holes will have something to grab onto.

 

[spartan91]

Yes that is part of the pipe.
I'm concerned that the gap between the floor and the flange in the front will lead to problems. In a perfect world, wouldn't there be flooring semi-snug to the pipe to allow for better seals/anchoring? I'm also thinking that somehow that gap between the floor and the flange helped to create the situation of the wax ring not having a good seal in front, but maybe it was an install mistake.

Can I just put a thick wax ring in and see how it performs over time, checking the ceiling under for water? It still would only have 2 screws anchoring it from the back. I will check and see if the repair flanges with the wide anchor holes will have something to grab onto.

And regarding the height of the flange, a handyman did make alterations last year to add height to the flange since he said it was below the floor when he looked at it. I think he used the term riser our spacer but I can't remember.

 

[Jadnashua]

Some toilets do not have much space, and that type of flange is thick. THen, add to it that it is not level, and as HJ said, there may not be much room for wax at the high point of the flange to the toilet once it is sitting flat on the floor. IF the toilet does not sit perfectly solid on the floor, as it rocks back and forth, it will create a gap in the wax seal. The wax is not really resilient - once you smush it down, it doesn't spring back when the toilet moves. So, when installing ANY toilet, you must ensure that you've made it rock solid to the floor. If you try to add shims after you've set the toilet, you'd be lifting the toilet after it had compressed the wax, and you'd have a gap. You may never notice unless you have a backup, but you might notice smells since any gap would allow sewer gasses to escape. There are a few types of waxless seals out there. At least a couple of them make a seal on the inside of the pipe rather than between the toilet and the flange. THen, there is at least one seal that is made out of a foam.

Wax has to be fairly hot to melt, and except maybe if you had a heater sitting right next to the toilet, it would be hard to get things hot enough to do that, and even then, it would be rare.