Takagi's new T-H2 - PVC Venting and Heat Recovery

Discussion in 'Tankless Water Heater Forum' started by North Jersey, Oct 15, 2009.

  1. North Jersey

    North Jersey New Member

    Messages:
    107
    This new unit uses PVC venting and has a second heat exchanger to recover heat from the vent stack. Ninety-five percent efficiency (LP) aside, I wonder if the savings on Cat III vent will offset the higher cost of the unit? I haven't seen prices yet. Whatever the case, this is an intriguing tankless unit:

    http://takagi.com/index.php?product_id=85&page_id=2
  2. zl700

    zl700 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    Texas
    It's their TH1 with an additional exhaust thermistor added to protect overheat of the PVC exhaust pipe, by turning down burner which in effect would change or lower the DHW output.

    Being it is the same model with new approvals, and once cost over $2,000, initial reports to me tell us that it will be pricey and up there in cost with the Noritz 842.

    Food for thought- All these condensing units don't cost a whole lot more to make than the non-condensing units. They cant drop the price too much on the 90%+ or it would erode the pricing structure on the existing 80%'s.
  3. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I would stick with the Noritz 842 and 841 first one is a few hundred bucks less its a residential version. Both have everything the Takagi has plus a built in neutralizer for the condensate, and comes with a controller, where the Takagi you have to purchase these as options.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2009
  4. zl700

    zl700 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    Texas
    I feel that on the Noritz 842, the built in neutralizer is a hindrance versus a benefit regarding features.

    What if you didn't want to or didn't need to neutralize?

    Can you remove the material and will the unit still work?

    It does make the unit more difficult to service making it a benefit to the contractor though.
  5. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Messages:
    1,706
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    The condensate from any condensing unit is very corrosive, and needs to be neutralized. I would never install a condensing unit with out a neutralizer installed. Even if I put in a steel vented unit like the 751 and have a condensate tee on it I would run it through a neutralizer trap as well.

    Changing it out is very easy, you just open the fron cover remove the two clamps grab the container lift and pull out and reverse the process.
  6. zl700

    zl700 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    Texas
    My point was it is quite easy to build a neutralizer that can last longer and be serviced exterior to the unit or on new homes connected to PVC drains really wouldn't be needed except when code enforced. Then of course adding a in-line unit exterior to the tankless is easier for all to change or service, and probably cost less.

    Take a lesson from the furnace guys, condensing furnaces dating back to 1978 have been installed without neutralizers, producing the same 4-6 PH condensate.

    Less than .025% of 90%+ furnaces get installed today with neutralizers.

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