Splicing into 3" PVC horizontal drain line

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by PharmD, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. PharmD

    PharmD New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Boston MA
    Hi, just a quick question on what would be the most appropriate way to splice into an existing horizontal 3" PVC waste/drain line in my basement. I need to replace a 3"X3"X1.5" wye with a 3"X3"X2" wye (this is for the washer) There is no left or right movement to allow the new wye to slide in and be cemented. Should I use: two 3" PVC repair/slip couplings, 2 ferncos, or two banded couplings? Thanks for the help.
  2. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Depending on movement allowed I would have a 1st choice of a regular pvc coupling and a shielded coupling or, a 2nd choice of 2 shielded couplings.

    Put the band on the pipe sliding it up the pipe out of the way, then put the rubber in place and roll it back over itself, put the pipe in place, roll the rubber back into place over the pipe, then put the band in place and tighten it.
  3. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I really have to wonder why plumbers have not discovered what goes on in irrigation
    pipes yet: Clamp and glue on saddle tees and y's.

    hole saw a hole in the pipe, file it and glue and clamp on the tee. About 1/8 the time spent and better than rubber rolling and grunting around trying to make it work.

    Maybe it has something to do with getting paid by the hour, unlike a farmer????
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,812
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote;
    I really have to wonder why plumbers have not discovered what goes on in irrigation
    pipes yet: Clamp and glue on saddle tees and y's.

    hole saw a hole in the pipe, file it and glue and clamp on the tee. About 1/8 the time spent and better than rubber rolling and grunting around trying to make it work.

    Maybe it has something to do with getting paid by the hour, unlike a farmer????

    We have known about saddles since the day they were invented. So have the plumbing codes and they ALL say saddles are PROHIBITED. I have never found any farmer who did not think he was an expert in EVERYTHING, which is why my dad said he almost starved to death when we lived in a farming area. That and having to take everything from a plow, to a manure spreader, to a goat in payment for work that he DID do. It took a long time before I realized why the meat locker was filled at the same time my goat "ran away".
  5. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I was talking about todays farmers. Old day farmers did'nt have PVC irrigation pipe and sprinklers, and miles of mainline, that if each 2" off shoot from a 8" mainline required a reducing tee, for perhaps 45$, they would be broke like in the old days.

    Saddle tees are strong, reliable, and easily installed. It is an artifact of ignorance if they are not allowed into the code.

    My kids eating a chicken right now that also "ran away". You had a bright dad.

    And by the way, I mean PVC saddle tees that get sanded, primed and glued and clamped with SS clamps. Better than any piece of rubber hose in my book, wrapped in SS or not.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
  6. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Perhaps the reason they remain prohibited by code is they routinely fail in applications where they are allowed. Hence due to their unreliability they remain an illegal connection...

    To have a little extra water leak out in a farmers field is one thing....
    A few rows of crop washed out...
    A little extra soil in the runoff...

    The liability inside a home is quite a bit more and less easy to fix than pushing some dirt around in a field...

    We'll stick with abiding by our "Artifact of Ignorance" and if it is ever changed then we may or, may not decide to use them.
    Even then it will be our choice whether we meet or, exceed the code specifications.
  7. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    If you mean a pressure pipe saddle tee, with a rubber washer, indeed they fail.

    Someone or some agency you know tested pvc glue-clamp saddle tees on DVW? I would like to see that report.

    What are the applications [non pressure] that you have used them in where they have failed, and in what manner?
  8. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,777
    Location:
    USA
    I thought all Americans were farmers?

    Now I'm confused.
  9. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Lateral connections to city sewer, roof drains...
    I didn't use them...
    I fixed them!
  10. Gsalet

    Gsalet George the Plumber

    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I agree two banded coupling is the way to go, Saddles are for amateurs
  11. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    An amatuer would not know what a saddle tee was if it fell on him.

    So they must be made for sleazy pro's or very bright problem solvers.

    Some of these saddles are very highly engineered and as strong as a normal fitting.

    I found some old threads from here that tell me plumbers all hate them and engineers seem to love them.

    DIY guy with a saddle tee and about 15 minutes = 15$ Plumber with a few banded couplings, fighting pipe in a tight wall= $400. Thats a lot of food money in this depression.
  12. redwoodvotesoften1

    redwoodvotesoften1 New Member

    Messages:
    78
    Ar yu an enginear? Yu shur talk lik one.
    Wun ah my kinfolk was an wuz an enginear.
    He wuz a fart smeller but twuz all book learnt an he din't ave a lick o common sense.
    Ez been all laid off now fer a good long time an he'z been buyin up my shine fer a a good long whyle...
    I do say iffen he killz offa few mora them enginear brain cellz he might start gittin smarter.
  13. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    You know the thread has gone south when Hillbilly gets a yearning to post
  14. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Yes it sure is...

    I think he does have a bit of wisdom to share though...
    I bet his moonshine operation is up to code and first class with the exception of taxes...:D
  15. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Bet his still has saddle tees all over it.
  16. Inspektor Ludwig

    Inspektor Ludwig Journeyman/Inspector

    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    In the good ol' UPC

    Funny thing, I wonder if the engineers that write the plumbing codes would say the same thing? Things that make you go............WTF?
  17. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,777
    Location:
    USA
    I bet it uses lead solder too.

    Good whisky should pay taxes.
  18. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Who exactly DOES write the codes? I do not believe it is a gaggle of engineers, but a combination of some, with tradesman of various skills, union mobsters, and political "scientists", all trying to keep their piece of the pie.

    At least in California, the contractor liscense tests are written by chosen [invited] groups of 8 or 10 long term proven expert contractors that have 15 to 20 years in the trade with no actions or complaints.

    I have been chosen for 2 of those round table riots in different trades, and its a damn interesting experience to see the divergent views and try and figure the cause.

    Thats just for TESTS - I cannot imagine the intrigues that surround making so called laws and rules. [ All made to be broken, according to my immigrant grandparents]

    Our lawmakers once amended the constitution [lowest moment in America's history ] to abolish alcohol. How can anyone trust the codes to be much better in ultimate judgement?
  19. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    That must be a big job to write in that manner!

    Fart smeller or not, the only good engineers built many houses and dug a lot of ditch before getting his degree.

    The more they drink [after 5pm at least] the better I trust them.

    By the way, I have built my own still, but havent had time to use it much lately.
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