Slab & Foundation over existing gas line

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by Lakee911, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Hey all,

    I have an existing 2" black iron pipe natural gas line (that has been sleeved) between my curb stop and my house (gas meter inside). <B>I'd like to build a garge over this gas line.</B> Near the house, the pipe is only 12" - 18" below grade. I do not know how deep it is near the curb stop because I've been unable to locate it. (It is probably buried).
    As far as the foundation is concerned, I am planning on putting something in the form to "take up space" around the pipe so the two can move independently. What is a good choice for this? I was thinking about wrapping the pipe with bubble wrap. Most likely the footer will be poured to grade using the existing earth as a form so I wouldn't be able to remove whatever I put in there.
    What should I do to the gas line under the slab? It will most likely not be exposed, but should it become exposed (perhaps they dig to deep for the gravel or it's buried very shallow), then what?
    I didn't call the gas company because here in Columbus I actually own the gas pipe between the curb stop and my meter. Odd, I know.


    Thanks,
    Jason
  2. shacko

    shacko Master Plumber-Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Rosedale, Md
    Gas Pipe

    A lot of places the home owner owns the pipe from the curb to the house, but the local jurisdiction tells you what you can do with it, I think you should call them, sorry.
  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    You cannot put enclosed space over underground gas pipe. I think it specifically is for living space, but I don't think you can do a garage, either. Exception is if the pipe is enclosed in a outer conduit which is sealed on the inside end and properly ventilated on the other end.
  4. burleymike

    burleymike New Member

    Messages:
    118
    Location:
    Idaho
    My parents just ran into this. They were going to have a well drilled and when the gas company came out to locate their lines they found the line goes under the garage that the previous owner built.

    The previous owner converted the original attached garage into a family room and built a new attached garage on the side of that. The gas line runs right under the new garage. It then goes around the back and up to the meter. Only problem with that was the meter was in the middle of the concrete patio. The guy did not even sleeve the line going up to the meter.

    The gas company was not too happy about all this so they told my parents they would have to run a new line from the street on the other side of their house all around back to the meter which would have to be moved to the side of the patio.

    In the end the gas company ended up feeling bad for them and did all the labor free they just had to buy the materials which came out to about $400.

    If the cost would have been in the thousands they would have had to go after the previous owners for not disclosing this.
  5. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    I don't know specifically about where you live but in most places you're not allowed to run a gas line under or through a foundation with a gas line. The gas line is also not allowed to be under a building.
  6. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    [INSERT EXPLICITIVES]

    I'll call the gas company.

    Thanks,
    Jason
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    gas

    When a gas line is permitted under any construction, it has to conform to some very stringent requirements. But the gas line to the meter is typically the property and responsibility of the utility, and they have their own requirements, one of them usually being that the ENTIRE line has to be accessible.
  8. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Sure enough, I cannot have the foundation over top of the gas line. :(

    The gas company said that I would need to have a plumber come out and move that portion of the line and then they would come and inspect it before turning the service back on.

    I need to call the city to see if I need to pull a permit for this though.

    Because I have no setback from the rear of my property, I am building my garage very close to the property line. Depending on where their gas pipe is located it may make more sense to move the "curb-box" (I thought it was called "curb-stop"?) as well--then I'd just come off of it past the garage and jog over to the existing line.

    A technician from the gas company is going to call me back and we'll go over just what needs to be done.

    Seeing as how it is going to be inspected, can any of this work be done myself? Seems like these days some sort of yellow plastic pipe is being used. I'm sure this needs some fancy tools to make connections, but I bet I can trench it myself, no?

    Between this and moving my electric service underground, my whole backyard is going to be chopped up. :eek:


    Thanks everyone,
    Jason
  9. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Permits mandatory. End of that story.

    In San Diego, as in many other cities and states, a homeowner is allowed to pull the permit. You need to know how the inspector will want to see it tested. Plastic pipe is not available to homeowners. It requires fusion welding, special tools, and certified training.

    Around here, the material available to homeowners is epoxy coated steel pipe. It is a struggle, because each joint, and each area dinged by the pipe wrench jaws, must be wrapped in 2 layers of 20 mil pipe tape. A primer must be applied to the pipe, then the tape. The primer is about $25 per can, so lot of folks figure they will just skip it. But it is yellow, and if the inspector does not see the yellow, he will not be mellow!
  10. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Not so fast, Jimbo! :) First of all, I do expect to have to pull a permit only because the City of Columbus is strapped for cash and will take revenue whererever it can get it. But, in an ongoing lawsuit, "Columbia Gas maintained in its lawsuit that the federal government regulates natural gas pipeline work, so the city has no authority to charge for inspections. The city countered it can get involved when those lines reach into residents’ homes." But, if I ask if I need one, they will surely say Yes. I'm going to call one day and ask if I need one to paint my fence, clean the gutters or mow the grass. :D

    That's what I wanted to know.

    I'm not sure that I like this idea. It is stainless, but for some reason buried plastic (MDPE, no?) just sounds like a better idea. I'm sure the plastic is cheaper too, no? Is black iron, galvannized, and copper for gas a thing of the past?

    Thanks!
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    gas

    Typically, the state corporation commission regulates the utility and the gas line to the meter, but in those cases, the gas company also installs and maintains that portion of the gas system. The city usually regulates the gas piping after the meter. You appear to have some kind of in between system. But you cannot move the curb stop, and the gas company might not like doing it either, but would probably charge for doing it because the entire neighborhood's gas would have to be turned off and then everything relit afterwards. Not all yellow PE gas line is fused, in fact I have only done one job like that and it was only because they were out olf the "compression" fittings, (and they are not copper type compression fittings), I needed.
  12. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Here in Columbus, OH before April of 2008 (or maybe it was 2009, I forget) consumers owned the gaslines from the main or the curbstop to the meter. Now the gas company owns it.

    What no one mentions, but the Public Utilities Commision of Ohio told me, is that it is for new installs only. No one, not even the PUCO can give away my gas line. It was mine and it's part of the equity in my house. When it leaks it becomes worthless and then they can give it away to the gas company.

    I've actually caught some of the gas company employees telling me that it's their line and they'll fix it if I accidentally break it. I tell them no, it's my line and you (gas company) will charge me to fix it if I break it. I'm sure even if its theres and I break it myself they will charge me.

    Sure enough, I got a statement from the gas company that to move my tap, line and meter, I agree to give them my old line. The work costs $2350 and I'm not sure what they do to the old tap, but they are able to hot tap the gas main so nothing needs shut off.

    (My water meter is also in my basement and I own the line from the curb stop to the meter too. :( It's 85 yr old galvanized. It's on borrowed time.)

    Jason
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    break

    Even if it is the gas company's line, they WILL charge you if you break it. ANd they are not cheap about doing it either. You would be surprised how many trucks and crews they can get to the site of a broken gas pipe. That is why they, and the other utilities, have a FREE locating service to mark them so you DO NOT break the lines.
Similar Threads: Slab Foundation
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Need advice capping copper lines to wetbar. Slab foundation May 2, 2013
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & How to bring water into a slab foundation. The concrete is coming Thurs!!! Dec 18, 2012
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & slab leak repair - near old foundation repair with piers Feb 15, 2010
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Newbee: help with drain on slab foundation Aug 30, 2006
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Floor Drain In Slab Foundation???? Nov 8, 2005

Share This Page