Sewer Backup with Mixed Messages

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christaaay

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I bought my 1973 two story house in July 2008. Since then I've had 4-5 backups where the toilets and bathtub and shower on the first floor will not flush or will have muddy water come up in them. I've had the pipes cleaned 5-6 times and the last time I was told that I needed to camera the line. I did and I've had about 6 plumbers watch the video to provide quotes. Basically it shows my 4" cast iron pipes are about 2" full of sludge in some sections and its holding water in some places, all of which is under the slab foundation. The first plumber wrote up a bid for channel rot, 2 bellies, poor pitch, and a collapsed joint. Because of the locations of the bathrooms and the pipes he said the only option was to tunnel under the house about 35ft in and 10 feet over (restricted access b/c of a pool). His bid was 20k to do the repairs. The other plumbers I've had look at the problem all seem to say different things. They all seem to agree that there is no channel rot as they do not see any cracks or tree roots but aside from that i'm getting opinions that range from tunneling under (like the first guy) to as little as jetting out the pipe and variations of fixes in between. I want to fix the issue so that i don't have to keep dealing with it but at this point it seems like the plumbers are more interested in their commission checks. I just can't imagine that plumbing is subjective enough to get such drastic differences in proposed work needed. The last plumber i had look at the video is one that does commercial plumbing for a friend of my dad's so the thought is that he may be the most trustworthy. He said that jetting the line wouldn't help as the sludge has hardened over time and the high pressure water wouldn't remove much if any of it. He didn't see evidence of channel rot but did see two bellies and proposes to do some tunneling from the outside and some from the inside of the house to fix it. He is also concerned that there may not be enough pitch to gravity drain and thinks that could be an issue outside of the house. I'm supposed to check to see if the cleanout has water at the bottom. He also hasn't seen the house, just the video with a description of the house/issue. I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice on what to do. I'm a first time home buyer and while handy at some stuff, I'm lost on plumbing and am concerned about doing unnecessary work. Thanks to anyone that can help!
 

Nate R

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Jetting breaks up flyash which turns into cement, basically, so it would clean your sludge out.

Maybe the low opinion of jetting was due to experience with the lower pressure jetting systems?

There's NO way a full trailer jetter would NOT break up sludge.
 

christaaay

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Can you post the video?

I tried to post it but its not in a recognized format and is split between multiple files. I'll see if i can figure out how to convert it today.

Also, will jetting solve the problem if I'm being told there are two bellies? I've read online that bellies aren't necessarily an issue. I just want to solve the back up issue. It doesn't exactly have to be perfect.
 

Redwood

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The bellies will cause a sludge build up.
Jetting will clean out all the sludge.
How long the line stays clear will depend on the length and severity of the bellies, what you put down the drain, and how much water goes through the drain to wash the bellies clean.

It may range from a periodic jetting to jetting on a daily basis.

I can't tell from here.
 

hj

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sewer

A sewer video is seldom "subjective" if you know what you are looking at. But, the "pools" they call bellies could be caused by backup behind sludge dams. Bellies by themselves may not be a serious issue depending on how deep they are, and if they are too serious that could create a problem when you try to regrade the pipe. Sludge should not be difficult to dislodge, nor should scale flakes. Hardened scale can be almost impossible to remove, however.
 

christaaay

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I wasn't able to get the whole video to copy as I had to use some freeware to convert the file over and it chopped half of the content but I think most of it is visible.

Also, the latest plumber is telling me that using some type of blade or knife may get the build up out but not the jet since he beleives its hardened. Thoughts?
 
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Redwood

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That line is too sludged up to say what you have.
I would recommend jetting the line using a chain cutter nozzle to remove all the sludge and scale so you can see what you have..
The chain cutter nozzle pictured below spins at about 2500 rpm @ 3-4000 psi. and will scour all that sludge and scale away to like new condition.

At that point camera the line again to see what you have. Just a guess but I'm not thinking the bellies are as bad as they look. I believe most of the water is holding at sludge dams. Below is before and after pics using a chain cutter.

chainnozzle.jpg
 
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christaaay

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Thanks for everyone's help so far. I had my dad's plumber out today and have scheduled him to come back and do the blade cutting on the inside of the pipe. He said that's the first thing he'd recommend. His feedback was again a little different from everyone else's. He said he's concerned that the cleanout is shallow (22 inches from top of pipe to bottom) and doesn't think its pitched right to gravity drain. Also, all of the other plumbers have recommended tunneling from outside the house as the section of pipe runs from the front to the back of the house and some were concerned with basically splitting my foundation in two. This plumber says tunneling that far isn't realistic and would go through the floor inside the house to replace all of the pipe if we find its needed. He's also worried that the pipe runs through a possible footer for my fireplace. Oh, and the other plumbers talked about hanging the replacement pipe from my foundation to prevent movement in the future. This guy says thats a horrible idea since in TX foundations can move up to 4 inches back and forth over our seasons. Any advice would be really appreciated.
 

99k

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This plumber says tunneling that far isn't realistic and would go through the floor inside the house to replace all of the pipe if we find its needed.

Caution: I owned a home in Texas as you described and it is common practice to run cables through the concrete (under high tension) to keep the slab under compression and prevent the slab from cracking. Be sure your plumber is aware of this or it could get exciting:eek: if he starts cutting in the wrong place
 

FloridaOrange

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Caution: I owned a home in Texas as you described and it is common practice to run cables through the concrete (under high tension) to keep the slab under compression and prevent the slab from cracking. Be sure your plumber is aware of this or it could get exciting:eek: if he starts cutting in the wrong place

Post tension on a single family home? Wow, only post tension around here involves high rises (so they can go with fewer columns). If post tensioning is common then there should be contractors who can xray the slab.

And yes, cutting a post tension cable would not be a nice way to start the weekend.
 

Jadnashua

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Post tension is used where the soil is unstable and where earthquakes are common. Some places in Texas have some soil that radically expands and contracts with changes in moisture content.
 

FloridaOrange

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Post tension is used where the soil is unstable and where earthquakes are common. Some places in Texas have some soil that radically expands and contracts with changes in moisture content.

I lived in Houston that has high clay content in the soil and is notorious for cracking slabs ... not sure about other areas (texas is a big state)

Good to know, thanks.
 
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