Runaway stacking problem with water heater

Users who are viewing this thread

Melissa2007B

Member
Messages
369
Reaction score
9
Points
18
Location
Denver, CO
quote; Just because its trickles water doesn't mean the tank is not getting too hot

If it trickles adn then stops, it is NOT because it is too hot, Once it starts "trickling" or running, because it is too hot it will NOT stop until the water cools down, which could not happen if the burner is coming on to create the "stacking" he is complaining about.

I'm female dear. :D I actually turned the thermostat down until the water was eventually only 135 degrees, and it still dribbled. That was when I knew it was the valve.
 
Messages
951
Reaction score
6
Points
18
Location
Midwest
Labor rate often depends more on where you live. I've not found the quality of the work in any way correlates with the charge out rate (same for mechanics or dentists or doctors for that matter.) Some of it depends on what you are asking them to do and what they are good at.

I don't mind paying more for a good plumber. They come with the tools and materials they need, find solutions to problems, and do good installs. They have skills/pracitice and experience that I lack and that's why I call them.

Ironically most expensive ones I've dealt with arrived without the parts they needed...not sure why they even bother to bring the van since it doesn't have the most basic items in it. They could save a lot of money by riding a cheap scooter with a tool box strapped onto it. Forgive me if I get a bit irritated when I have to come up with a solution, the tools and parts during a job for something I'm paying someone else for their expertise and equipment to handle.

The cheapest I had were called out to clean out the drains and main sewer line. I had them snake everything including the vents. There were two of them and their rate worked out to about $20/hr each. That was just a few years ago in southwest Georgia. I have no idea how that made any economic sense, but their company had been doing business a long time. It seemed to cure the slow/stopped drain problems in that older home (where some of the old cast iron had already rusted out and been replaced.)
 

LiquidPlumber

In the Trades
Messages
66
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Location
Gastonia NC
T and P valves do go bad. It happens. That being said, the poster says she turned the heater "WAY down" to 135! and also that incoming pressure was 90 psi Im willing to consider that the T and P valve was actually doing its job and relieving a potentially dangerous over pressure condition. Several things to consider, you are definantly in need of a PRV to reduce that pressure. also a thermal expansion tank is in order. More importantly, dont ignore that bleeding T and P valve, your gas valve/thermostat may be sticking and over heating the water, that happens too.

As for the guy who suggested opening the T and P valve every month, all your doing is asking the seal to get a peice of trash stuck in it and causing it to leak. Leave it alone, youre not helping anything and youre only going to create a problem.

Im not even gonna go into all the taxes fees and expensive regulations I have to comply with that cost me thousands and thousands of dollars a year. Why just TODAY i shucked out $432 for one state fee, one bond payment, and one of my multiple insurance payments. Once upon a time I had my operating costs figured out to the penny. at that time EVERY TRUCK I had running had to make $100 every hour just to BREAK EVEN. Thats no profit, no advertisement. So, when I charge $158 plus $20 ($178 total) for the T and P valve you can see what a monsterous profit Im making for the hour ive spent diagnosing the issue, determining the solution, and fixing the problem. The "big profit" Ive made also is severely diminished if I had to drive 30 minutes to get to you and 30 minutes to the next call. I know it seems like the plumbers are making a killing, but trust me, you wouldnt want to have our monthy operating bills, taxes, fees and required regulatory cost burdens..... You probably wouldnt want to have our phones either at 9pm almost every night, midnight several times a week, saturday evening, sunday afternoons... etc etc. :p
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
It's very rare (from my limited experience and physics background) to get stacking problems on a WH. This is a theoretical problem that is more often a problem with diversely different densities like in salt water and fresh water, not all water from the same source. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it is not common - convection generally wins, preventing it. A gas WH heats from the bottom and middle. An electric reverts to the bottom when the top's heating element has been satisfied.

They have used this effect to store heated water in places like Isreal with fresh/salt water, and it can happen naturally (think thermoclines in the ocean), but not so much in a small scale thing like a WH.
 

Hackney plumbing

Homeowner
Messages
1,130
Reaction score
3
Points
38
Location
Alabama
It's very rare (from my limited experience and physics background) to get stacking problems on a WH. This is a theoretical problem that is more often a problem with diversely different densities like in salt water and fresh water, not all water from the same source. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it is not common - convection generally wins, preventing it. A gas WH heats from the bottom and middle. An electric reverts to the bottom when the top's heating element has been satisfied.

They have used this effect to store heated water in places like Isreal with fresh/salt water, and it can happen naturally (think thermoclines in the ocean), but not so much in a small scale thing like a WH.

Stacking is not as common now because the manufacturers shortened the dip tubes. 20 years ago they were longer.
 
Messages
951
Reaction score
6
Points
18
Location
Midwest
I agree with jadnashua, this is unlikely.

While the T&P is the device that was apparently failing, others are likely to be correct that the actual root cause is thermal expansion and/or excessive supply pressure. Get a~$10 gauge that will display peak pressures and rig it up indoors with it being winter and all (probably off the water heater drain.) Then, when the pressure exceeds about 80 psig plan on installing a thermal expansion tank and PRV.

When having the original install done by a plumber, select components that you can replace or rebuild without calling a plumber. (No offense to professionals, but simple wrench job replacements are DIY.) PRV's and thermal expansion tanks have finite lifetimes. Watts PRV's are a sore point for me since I know how to read a graph, pressure, and flow. There is no way in Hades that the one's I've had are getting anywhere near their published design curve after the first few months of operation. Several plumbers have told me that the springs are the weak component, but they are difficult to rebuild...although when I replace the next one I'm going to orient it so that the top works is vertical and away from the wall, so that it can be reassembled easily in place. (From examining the one I replaced there is nothing wrong with the valve/seat, etc. No build up or erosion.) What happens is that as they fail the pressure might be set to 65-75 psig, and fall off by 10-15 psi with even a low flow.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
Im not even gonna go into all the taxes fees and expensive regulations I have to comply with that cost me thousands and thousands of dollars a year. Why just TODAY i shucked out $432 for one state fee, one bond payment, and one of my multiple insurance payments. Once upon a time I had my operating costs figured out to the penny. at that time EVERY TRUCK I had running had to make $100 every hour just to BREAK EVEN. Thats no profit, no advertisement. So, when I charge $158 plus $20 ($178 total) for the T and P valve you can see what a monsterous profit Im making for the hour ive spent

A good mechanic in a BAD market really must come up with some sort of sliding scale. I just could not give grandma on Social - non-security a 200$ bill for an 8$ valve and sleep at night. Make up for granny at the McMansion where the doctor [who is in a trade where you still get paid for killing your patients] and his wife, the stockbroker-bloodsucker got her 800,000$ bonus for screwing the public out of a few billion that year.

Most of you guys have to have the shiny new truck with 1000$ worth of tires on them. My plumbing van is a 600$ auction item, maybe a 1985, that was the sheriff search and rescue van. Holds a good 5 grand worth of parts. If you really think someone cares about the truck you drive, you got a bone in your head. I'll take the guy with his bumber wired on, and red duct tape on the taillights.

To give you a taste of the economy, an auction here last week sold a huge fleet of ford f350 vans, 2000 year up to 2007. With internal racks and cages, maintenance records, etc. - smogged and ready to go for $1800 to 4500 bucks. All from a few busted plumbers and electricians that thought appearance would always carry them through.

Looks like granny got herself a harbor fright wrench, and the retired handyman at the church to help her out. total cost: 2 cups of coffee or a beer and 15$ in parts.

Bid on a local job here. My price was half of 2006 costing, to keep the guys alive, burn dead inventory. The owner got about 7 bids - like a pack of sharks descending on fresh meat. I guess the guy that got it has no employees, probably no insurance, thus, and drives a ford escort.
 
Messages
951
Reaction score
6
Points
18
Location
Midwest
Most of you guys have to have the shiny new truck with 1000$ worth of tires on them. My plumbing van is a 600$ auction item, maybe a 1985, that was the sheriff search and rescue van. Holds a good 5 grand worth of parts. If you really think someone cares about the truck you drive, you got a bone in your head. I'll take the guy with his bumber wired on, and red duct tape on the taillights.

To give you a taste of the economy, an auction here last week sold a huge fleet of ford f350 vans, 2000 year up to 2007. With internal racks and cages, maintenance records, etc. - smogged and ready to go for $1800 to 4500 bucks. All from a few busted plumbers and electricians that thought appearance would always carry them through.

I didn't want to poke the other guy in the eye over it, but I'm with you on this. I don't really care what the guys are driving as long as it gets them to the job and carries the parts they need for the job. (I do understand that they need something that won't leak oil/tranny fluid on the customer's drive though.)

If the trucks are too nice, I figure I'm paying for that. It's the same way I feel about banks...if the interior is too opulent then I avoid them.

I would think a T&P changeout if called to do it, would get the standard minimum charge for the truck coming out (~$75 here) plus the part since it is a quick job.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks