Removing Well Cap

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by joejvj, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. 99k

    99k Radon Contractor and Water Treatment

    Fairfield Co.,Connecticut
    The minimum distance in CT from leach fields to well is 100' ... don't know about exceptions. So getting back to a situation where the well is closer to the fields and a "double casing" is installed, is there a minimum casing depth required to protect the water?
  2. Cookie

    Cookie .

    99, Is that what you do in CT? Is this effective enough? So many pollutants or contaminates could enter. Do you have a minimum casing depth?
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2009
  3. 99k

    99k Radon Contractor and Water Treatment

    Fairfield Co.,Connecticut
    As long as the aerator was removed and the spigot was flamed, I would think the test is credible. Does contamination happen during the draw or at the lab, I guess it's possible ... I draw the samples and use a good certified lab. So what is your protocol when you have a positive reading for bacteria and you were'nt the one who drew the sample? Do you do another test before correcting the issue?
  4. 99k

    99k Radon Contractor and Water Treatment

    Fairfield Co.,Connecticut
    Cookie, I do not know the minimum casing depth. I was thinking though, if the well was only 50' away, I would want a 60' (I think 10' in minimum plus another 50' to give me my distance). I am not a driller but was trying to logic this out. I really hate the thought of being less than 100' from a field, however, some lots just aren't that big.
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I don't know what you mean it isn't what I said but... I said: Yes shocking a well, especially a rock bore well, is no guarantee that you can get rid of a bacteria contamination and many times shocking doesn't help at all.

    That "a well" includes all wells.

    What I've said is factual, if it frightens you, I'm sorry but trust me, I won't be selling you anything.

    Anyway, you seem to not know much about this subject or you wouldn't be retesting for Coliform simply because you don't believe it's possible for your wells to have the problem so there must be a mistae in the previous testing.

    You sound like WI DNR used to when they said for yrs that due to their well construction and pump contractor regs they didn't have a Coliform problem. They found out over the last couple yrs that they do. As to your retesting, Coliform comes and goes and can do that in a matter of hours to a day. So when you retest and find none, that doesn't mean the well wasn't contaminated previously.

    I've worked under PA DEP, the Federal VA and FHA for about 5-6 yrs and tested every well I tested water from for Coliform bacteria for 19 years. I've worked on Small Water Systems and did the quarterly microbiological testing on them for a number of years.

    The drillers here refuse to discuss what they don't know by saying they know everything and go on about sealing a well, double casing on'n on. The fact is that there would not be septic tank and leach bed minimum distance and other type regs IF water wells were not capable of microbiological contamination.

    The earth is not a filter unless you mean stones and rock can't sink through it. Everything else that is in liquid form or is dissolved by water gets into the groundwater somewhere at sometime. Otherwise explain how water can go through your earth filter and not contain other things in addition to H2O; like bacteria, road salt, lead from leaded gas, herbicides and pesticides etc, etc..

    The common thought of drillers here seems to be that a well with a grouted casing into bed rock somehow seals off the water above the bedrock which is false UNLESS the rock is solid. And most is not solid and if it was, there would not be any recovery of the well UNLESS you think the water in the bedrock is under some type of pressure so it flows UP into the usually 4" 5" or 6" diameter bottom of a rock bore well at the end of the "properly sealed" casing.

    Problem is that there can't be any upflow IF the rock is solid. And if it isn't solid, the well can't be sealed off from the water table water above the fractured bed rock.

    And if anyone disagrees, explain why and how the water level in a fully recovered well equals the level of the water table water outside the casing.
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I have never contacted anyone on the internet in any way, PM, email or phone, to sell them anything anywhere at anytime. It's bad business IMO. If they PM or email me I tell them to call me. It's good business. If someone PMs me with a question, I tell them to post in the forum so others can learn. So, sorry, you must have me confused with someone else.
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Well if you have to ask... I guess I'm talking about something we should discuss, so thanks for asking, I suspect that there are other members that don't understand too.

    No, I don't install water treatment and I haven't since like the end of 2004, I just sell it. I also stopped doing well pump work about this time in 2005. Actually the last well job we did was a well cleaning IIRC. Yep, my wife says it was. It was a well that had a bad case of IRB. Below is a picture or two of the drop pipe etc..

    That's right, the earth does not filter anything out of water that is harmful to humans and animals because the stuff is dissolved into the water. And since water can percolate down through the earth and through cracks, layers and fissures in bed rock, right through it in most areas of the world UNLESS the rock is solid like granite, and then even granite if there are cracks and fissures in it.

    Algae requires sunlight to grow, so since the sun doesn't shine down into a capped or sanitary seal sealed well, no algae.

    Turbidity is suspended dirt in the water and it is usually caused by errorsion and/or currents and water flow containing dirty water in or into lakes, streams, rivers, ocean and seas and all other bodies of water like ponds, pools, man made or others. Currents are caused by wind and wave action.

    Groundwater usually moves so slow that any dirt settles out of it in the layers between rock layers and in the cracks and fissures in layers of rock. Pump a well sufficiently and you can cause the recovery flow to increase enough to erode the settled dirt and cause the water to become turbid until you stop pumping and let the well sit long enough for the turbidity to settle to the bottom or at least past the pump's inlet and you'll get clear water again.

    These pictures are of the cleaning of the underground 1" line about 150' long going into the basement of a building not pictured but the top left corner of one of the pictures shows the back side of it above the bushes, from the well behind the tan and blue tanks, next to the corner of the brick building, that had just been built. We replaced the drop pipe and pump so they would have a good spare after the old pump was taken apart and cleaned. Then we also installed a pellet dropper on the well. The maintenance man called me this past Feb. needing more pellets and says they haven't had to pull the pump since I cleaned things 5 yrs ago now and there water is the best it has been in 15 yrs. and, no failing of any state required quarterly microbiological water tests since then. Before that they used to buy a new pump about every two years and had a UV light.

    Attached Files:

  8. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I was a licensed insurance agent and private pilot once. For many years I had a commercial drivers license and fishing and hunting licenses too. I was a certified welder and had union cards for commercial driving and electrical worker twice. But wells'n pumps or water treatment, nope, none required.

    Bad advice! "a good well", you don't mean you guarantee the water quality you get out of the wells you drill, now do you. Upper says ya don't 'cuz ya can't, probably for fear of losing some money!!

    Gerty, the well was a good well, lots of water IIRC like 46 gpm for the 19 people there 24/7 plus many daily visitors to the building. It just produced bad water. But I understand your desire to drill a new well but you aren't a good enough salesperson to sell them a new well when my price was less than a 1/4 of your prices.

    Plus, I also did work for them at another building about 30 miles away from this building, and had been doing the water treatment stuff at this building for about 7 yrs (for the original owner/builder) before this business bought it.

    BTW, this was one of many jobs I did under PA DEP Small Water Systems regs but no license; do you think I should refund their money after all this time? Oh, I had a marriage license too.

    If there is anything else I can attempt to educate you on, let me know.
  9. 99k

    99k Radon Contractor and Water Treatment

    Fairfield Co.,Connecticut
    The thought of someone doing well and pump work who is unlicensed is very disturbing to me (even if the state doesn't require a license).:eek:
  10. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    It must be because of where you live. If the state doesn't require or issue a license, what would you suggest well owners do for pump or well work they don't do themselves?

    Is it true that most drillers are permitted rather than licensed? And that really, the equipment has the permit, not the person? I think I read that the other day looking at state "license" regs.
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Really, that's only because the state requires a "license" and they didn't have one, my state didn't but, I was fully registered with the state and fully underwritten and insured including liability for all the things I did.
  12. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Sunlight and the UV in it filtered by earth... I would say it is blocked by earth because to me, filtered means that some of what is being filtered out gets through whatever the filter is made of. And I know it gets real dark under just a 1/4" of earth which tells me light isn't getting through.

    Sand is a great filter for particulates larger than like (guessing here without looking it up and it depends on the size of the grains of the sand being used) 100 microns but, regardless of the size of the grains of sand or multiple layers or various sizes of sand, sand will not remove any of anything in the water smaller than the micron rating of the sand filter or any of whatever is dissolved in the water that goes right through multiple feet, meters, yards or miles of sand.

    Animal and human feces is filtered out by earth, yet the bacteria in the feces will go right through the earth with the water because to filter out bacteria like Coliform as an example (Coliform is a large group of various families of bacteria), you need a .5 micron filter at least and possibly a .2 mic filter.

    "Or maybe the fact that most water that falls to the earth gets trapped in the capillaries of the sediments in the ground.". I need your definition of "sediments in the ground" but, as you say, some doesn't get trapped, and maybe that water has all kinds of chemicals, dangerous metals and bacteria etc. in it and it pollutes a "properly constructed and sealed" well somewhere. Who knows?

    We know that well drillers can't tell invisible quality until after the well is completed and water is drawn and then tested.

    We do know that well water at the depths we currently get it from can have all types of contaminates in it that make it nonpotable, or unfit for human consumption. That's why beer and whiskey was invented.

    So IMHO, all the grout we want to fill around the casing, to whatever depth we want to pour it to, is not sufficient to prevent contamination; especially with a rock bore well even the addition of a drive shoe.
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Yes I know grout isn't poured and it isn't only cement, members don't care and can understand poured a bit better than pumped unless you explain how it is pumped and it doesn't matter.

    I really doubt if members care how much you have in your grouting systems.

    Your comments are off topic but thanks for agreeing with the rest of what I said.
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