Recommended well water setup

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davidwater

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I'm on my second well / pump vendor of which both have been unreliable with very poor follow up. This makes me even more reluctant to take the advice at face value. So I would like some feed back on the recommended set up. I know I have a iron and sulfur problem that I want to correct and I'm starting with just a working diagram storage tank on an existing 2 hp pump, new controller with >15 gpm output and a new 8' x 10' pump house I built. I'm currently a single person, 1,000 sqft home, 2 bath but with plans to grow. Testing results:

Hardness - 11 gpg
Iron - 2.0 ppm
PH - 8.0
Silica - 35 ppm
Hydrogen Sulfide - yes
Manganese - none
TDS - 175 ppm

Recommendation:
Charger Iron & Sulfur Breaker, 1.5 cu ft 10 x 54", 2510 SXT with carbon, Katalox & Nextstand - $1600.00
Canature WS 48,000 grain, 1.5 cu ft 10 x 54", 5600 SXT with brine tank & 150 lbs salt - $1400.00
10" Big Blue whole house filter housing kit, wrench, bracket #2 DGD-5005 filters - $185.00
Hydro Blend SC605CW for silica scaling control - $240.00
 

Reach4

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What you posted seems like a better than average proposal except I would go for 1.5 cuft of Katalox Light (KL) and no Nextsand (which I presume you mean). The KL does mechanical filtering in addition to its catalytic action. Also, see https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/2510sxt-vs-7000sxt.45887/ for comments on 2510 SXT.

The Big Blue housing would be after the backwashing filter and before the softener. You can leave room beneath to accommodate a 20 inch housing which can screw into the same mount. The 10 inch is probably fine.

Regarding "Hydro Blend SC605CW for silica scaling control", I don't know what that is going to do for you. Silica will cause spotting that does not wash off. But from what I understood, reverse osmosis was the best way to remove that. HydroBlend seems to inject some chemical, so that seems worth further study.

Are you in Canada or USA?

I am not a pro.
 

davidwater

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Thanks for the help. I'm in Oregon. Is there any reason why I wouldn't use the 7000sxt for both the iron and WS tanks?

I agree I didn't understand the HydroBlend either. I thought that was what I had the WS for to begin with. After the WS, if I want to remove the Na, which I do, I would use RO, correct?

I'm not sure I understand the terminology. Since the quote has "2510 SXT or 5600 SXT" does that imply it will be for a Fleck valve or can it be any brand valve?

I really would like to do this once and get a fair value. So far I haven't been impressed with the quality of the professional I have experienced.
 

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Thanks for the help. I'm in Oregon. Is there any reason why I wouldn't use the 7000sxt for both the iron and WS tanks?
A little higher cost.

Incidentally, normally a filter controller of the same family costs less than a softener controller because filters don't do water metering. They use a fixed schedule.
I'm not sure I understand the terminology. Since the quote has "2510 SXT or 5600 SXT" does that imply it will be for a Fleck valve or can it be any brand valve?
While I would like to say the would be Fleck, I don't know that you could count on that. Of course, for all I know, somebody might offer a Flark 5600 SXT unit made down the road from the Sorny TV factory. :mad: So asking would make sense.

Check inbox above.
 

davidwater

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Is Katalox not the same as Katalox light?

The recommendation I got stated "2510 SXT with carbon, Katalox & Nextsand". I'm gathering that I should NOT assume this will be a system with a Fleck 2510 valve and a tank filled with Katalox light filter media.

I take it a KL system refers to the brand "Katalox light" which is for iron removal. But not a WS product line.
 

Reach4

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The recommendation I got stated "2510 SXT with carbon, Katalox & Nextsand". I'm gathering that I should NOT assume this will be a system with a Fleck 2510 valve and a tank filled with Katalox light filter media.
I would not agree with that. I believe you want to get a direct confirmation, however.
 

davidwater

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This is where I'm currently settling... please tear me apart.

Iron filter:

I'll likely have to have it built since I can't find a pre-made system.
Fleck 7000 on demand regenerated 2 cubic foot 12" x 52" with 100% Katalox Light, including a 2310 float controlled system with a 15" x 17" x 36" tank for chlorine regeneration about once a week

Water softener system:
Fleck 7000 on demand regenerated 1.5 cubic foot (48K) softener using regular 8% mesh resin (Purolite or Aldex) in a 10" x 54" tank OR why NOT another 2 cubic foot to keep it simple??

Both systems have in essence the same make up but different media? Makes it easy for me related to parts and quality control.

Is it possible that just the Katalox would remove enough "hardness" I wouldn't need a softener? I shouldn't need a sediment filter with Katalox before the Softener before my 120 gal diaphragm tank? Sorry the tank has to come after the filters?

I have a 2" well head and full 1 1/2" lines leaving the pump house. I have one 1 1/2 line for the house and a separate 1 1/2 line for the shop (and future studio) and irrigation needs.
 
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Reach4

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Is it possible that just the Katalox would remove enough "hardness" I wouldn't need a softener? I shouldn't need a sediment filter with Katalox before the Softener before my 120 gal diaphragm tank? Sorry the tank has to come after the filters?
No, the Katalox will not remove hardness. Yes, your Katalox filter should be after the pressure tank. The pressure switch would be at the pressure tank. You don't want a filter that could possibly clog between the pump and the pressure switch. I know it is very unlikely that your KL filter would clog, but we cannot be sure that there is not a phase in the controller that blocks flow.
Both systems have in essence the same make up but different media? Makes it easy for me related to parts and quality control.
The filter controller would normally not have the metering turbine, but it could. The DLFC, which will control the back wash rate, will be much higher GPM than for the softener. You will want about 12 GPM per square foot of cross section. Make sure your pump can do that. You may want to have a provision for a solution tank on the filter to put a little oxidizing through the media during regeneration. Usually that is not needed. If you use it, it is like a timed brine draw but no brine refill phase (BF=0). So the float should not ever come into play. Usually you would use a solution tank, which is more closed up than a brine tank. You refill manually with water and oxidizer (such as potassium permanganate or maybe even chlorine bleach). And again, most systems don't have the solution tank relying on the water dissolved in most well water as the only oxidizer.

I would add a boiler drain tap for dispensing soft water for refilling the solution tank.

I would put a Pentek big blue 4.5 x 20 housing after the backwashing filter for the finest stuff. It would probably not have much to do, so the filter should last a long time. Use polypropylene filter elements. It is best to put a bypass around the filter. I don't have one. I do keep extra O-rings available.
 

davidwater

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I would add a boiler drain tap for dispensing soft water for refilling the solution tank.

You mean to add it in the plumbing set up so I have an access point for softened water in pump house? Good idea, thanks.

The filter controller would normally not have the metering turbine, but it could.

Seems like a good idea to have that info available and gives me future options with the valve, if not too expensive. I see the 7000 SXT for around $300 and seems like from everything I read a very versatile setup.

Seems that it is a good idea to put a bypass on each piece I put in the system.
 

davidwater

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I have read about a set up with a Katalox tank to back wash after a 15 psi drop is noted between the inlet and outlet of the filter tank. Is using a pressure drop a the best marker for needing a back wash?

I thought I would start without a chemical additive to the Katalox and see what my ability to remove iron was before adding them.

Do I need to be concerned with bacteria build up in my system if I have no sanitation set up? I have read a lot on here about flushing my well and whole system.

Thank you for all you help. I reaching out to a few vendors tomorrow.
 

davidwater

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Are these water testing devices worth the time to use?

HM Digital TDS-EZ Water Quality TDS Tester
Hach 223002 Chlorine, Hardness, Iron, and pH Test Kit, Model CN-39WR
 

Mikey

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Seems that it is a good idea to put a bypass on each piece I put in the system.
I've been putting unions on every piece in my system lately. Makes it easy to remove anything for service or tweak the configuration. Adds about $10 per component for a 3/4" system, $12 for 1" at decent plumbing outlets or big-box stores. Be very wary of discount fittings available on the Web.
 

Reach4

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HM Digital TDS-EZ Water Quality TDS Tester
TDS tester is not useful for testing softening because softened water will not have lower reading than the raw hard water. In fact it could be higher.

Regarding iron removal, would TDS meter be useful in some way? I doubt it, since I have not seen anybody indicate that would be the case.

Hach 223002 Chlorine, Hardness, Iron, and pH Test Kit, Model CN-39WR

May be overkill, but it would give some nice tests. Note the reagents have expiration dates on them, though they don't become worthless after expiration.


Testing hardness is important including after install to see if softener is working efficiently. The Hach 5B test does that.

pH testing is important, but it does not have to be super accurate and usually it does not change regularly for a deep well. The lab test will have that info. I use pH test paper to make sure my water is acidic enough for sanitizing, and I add vinegar if it is not.

Chlorine test is not needed for well water unless you are treating with chlorine. I use high-range chlorine strips to see if I have enough chlorine for sanitizing. The Hach kit is for low range testing of drinking water.

Iron testing is important in equipment design and to see if things are working. The lab test has that, but a sensitive test is good for follow on. I got the I bought Seachem multitest iron test. The Hach test is probably better. Mine is made for aquariums. My results were compatible with my lab tests.
 

ditttohead

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Pressure drop is not a proper way to do an iron reduction filter backwash schedule. Just do it every third day for most applications to ensure long media life.
 

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What value do you like to see for free chlorine after the contact tank?
I expect to do well and plumbing sanitizing about every 2 years. I go for 200 ppm, and about 5.5 to 6 pH. This is overkill, but I figure there will be some areas below the pump that get less circulation. I then use the flooding volume. I want to see 2o ppm or more to each faucet before shutting that faucet off to let it sit. I I don't have a contact tank.

If I were injecting chlorine before a contact tank, the levels would be much lower but continuous.
 

Mikey

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If I were injecting chlorine before a contact tank, the levels would be much lower but continuous.
That's the level I'm wondering about. I've been setting for 3ppm but I think that may be overkill.

Getting ready to reconfigure my system
from:
pump (10gpm)->bladder tank (66 gal, 17.1 gal drawdown @ 40-60psi)->chlorine injection->retention tank (120 gal)->backwashing carbon filter (1.5 cu ft)->softener (1.5 cu ft)
to:
pump->chlorine injection->"swirly" tank (http://www.apwinc.com/retention_tank.html)
->retention tank (may no longer be needed, but I've got it)->bladder tank->carbon filter->softener.

Historic usage is 100-103 gpd including all backwashing/regenerating use. Present configuration injects the chlorine after the bladder tank, before the settling tank, which (IMHO) does a lousy job of dispersing the chlorine. I was a little concerned about putting the pressure switch after the 3 (or maybe 2) tanks, but there's nothing to dramatically affect the pump pressure compared to switch pressure other than a claimed 2psi drop in the swirly tank at 24 gpm/60 psi, which can be compensated for.
 
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davidwater

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Thanks for all the input. Let me add another twist in that my IRB testing just showed +

So now it seems wise to use chlorine and retention tank instead of iron filtering, correct?
 
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