Programming a Fleck 7000 and Sanitizing

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by gojoe3, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Hello to all,

    I would like to learn how to program my softener's control valve. It was installed in 2005. It is a Fleck model 7000 on a 8" x 48" tank. The company that installed it told me it is a 1.0 cubic foot unit (don't know why they didn't use a 9" x 48" tank?) with a capacity of 32,000 grains, but that it is set up for 24,000. I have an 18" x 33" brine tank with a salt shelf/grid which sits 5" up from the bottom of the brine tank..

    For right now I just need to know what settings to use temporarily.

    I just cleaned the brine tank (first time it's been done in 7 years) and all the parts in the brine well were relatively clean. I checked the operation of the Fleck 2310 assembly and it operates properly. The air check sits about 1" above the bottom of the tank and the bottom of the float assembly is at 5 1/2" up from the base of the brine tank. I have added 6 gallons of water to bring the water level up to about 1" above the salt shelf/grid and then I added one 40Lb bag of solar salt. I'll let this sit for the next few hours to make some brine. I realize that I should pull the control valve and check the condition of the original resin to see if it is fouled or has degraded, but this will have to wait for a couple of weeks.

    I'd like to sanitize the resin tank and resin because I've never done it before and because we have some Iron and possibly some Iron bacteria. I have read here that I can use one cup (8 oz.) of non-scented bleach, mix it in a gallon of water, and pour it into the brine well after the brine is ready. I would then like to do a manual regen using 15lbs (how do I set this?) for the (assumed) 1.0 cu ft of resin because I would like to make sure the full capacity of the entire resin bed is restored. I understand that I will need to do this twice (back to back?) to fully restore the capacity and to rinse out the bleach from the sanitizing procedure.

    Will I need to stop the regen cycle at any certain point in order to allow the bleach a certain contact time?
    Will I need to extend the timeframe for either the first or second backwash in order to fully rinse out the residual bleach?

    If I can't regen twice back to back (we have guests showing up in 3 hours) to fully restore the resin's capacity and rinse all the bleach out, should I just skip the sanitizing procedure and just do a manual regen, using the current settings, when the brine is ready? The meter now shows I have 200 gallons left before a programmed regen will occur.

    I have the basic service manual which came with the unit and have downloaded and printed out the Master Programming Mode.
    I have not yet gotten into the master programming (level II ?) mode, so I don't know what the current settings are.
    I have reviewed the "Meter Delayed Regenerated System" standard programming as that is what my system was and is set up with.

    Current settings are :
    Feed water hardness = H-25
    Regeneration time = 2:00 AM

    Extended Programming Mode
    Regeneration Cycle step times seem to be set up for the dF category as they are as follows :
    Cycle Step 1 : Backwash = 9, Step 2 : Brine Draw = 59, Step 3 : 2nd Backwash = 4, Step 4 : Rapid Rinse = 9, Step 5 : Refill = 11

    I tried to find the BLFC and DLFC Specs but all I could find was a white label on one side that said BLFC : 3/8" fitting and blank DLFC (0.?) (label was cutoff). On another label it said Injector (3). Where else should I look for this info?

    I will update this thread with all other pertinent data in the near future. I.e. , recent water test, full water system specs, etc..

    Thanks in advance for the assistance.
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,839
    Location:
    Ontario California
    The refill rate is critical in setting the system correctly. If you remove the gray clip from the valvee brine line fitting, pul out the brine line, and look inside. You will see in tiny writing, either
    123
    25
    50

    This would be the BLFC flow rate. it should be either 123, or 25. If it is 50, it is wrong. The injector should also be checked, remove the red clip from the top of the valve (be sure to depressurise the valve, and push the cap into the valve about 1/8" before attempting to remove the red clip or you will break the clip), remove the cap, and inspect the injector. Let us know what color the injector is. Once you have this basic information, we can help you properly. Many companies are unaware how to set up a softener valve correctly and simply ship the valves as they come from the manufacturer instead of adjusting the valve properly. This can lead to a very inefficient softener.

    I have attached a picture of the BLFC. These are the numbers you will be looking for inside. BLFC.jpg
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  3. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Dittohead,

    Thank you for the instructions on how to locate the BLFC and the injector. As per checking the injector, how do I depressurise the valve?

    Would this be the correct way to depressurize? I copied it from a thread at ************.com and pasted it below :

    To depressurize a Fleck 7000-based system - turn both bypass knobs to the bypass position, press and hold the regenerate button for 5 seconds. That will initiate a manual regeneration. After a few moments, you will hear water running down the drain. Water will slow to a stop after a period of about 2 minutes. Once the water stops, the system is depressurized.
  4. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Dittohead,

    OK, I checked the BLFC in the brine line. It read 168 and F and 50. Guess it's the wrong BLFC. Just to confirm the control valve is a Fleck 7000 not a 7000SXT.

    I depressurized the valve, following the instructions from another thread, I was a bit worried because there was no water running sound. I tried to push down on the cap but it was down as far as it would go. I released the red clip, expecting water to spray everywhere, but all went OK and I was able to remove the cap and peak inside to see the "yellow" injector. I put it back together and fast forwarded through the program cycles, waiting for the motor to stop each time before changing it to the next cycle.
  5. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Dittohead,

    I tried to see where I could purchase a Fleck BLFC online. I found a site that has a 3/8" BLFC Assembly-0.125 gpm or a 0.25 gpm each about $15.00 plus shipping.
    Which should I get? Best place to buy one? I understand you may need more info about my water quality, I will post a follow up with the info.
    Is the yellow injector the correct one? Or will I need to replace it as well?
  6. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Update,

    Some system information and water test results.

    My current configuration (in order):
    1/2? 1/3? hp (cannot locate documentation) submersible pump with 1" pipe,
    Clack pvc venturi-type air injector (model U1020),
    40 gallon Amtrol WX250 pressure tank (40/60 low/high)(aprox 4.5 gpm pre-system output),
    all piping is now 3/4",
    8" x 48" off-air tank (what are these called? aka?) w/pressure release valve (don't know if this tank does anything, it is always full of water and there is never anything in the 1/4" drain line coming out of the pressure release valve),
    9" x 54" pH neutralizer with Fleck 5600 control valve (originally had Triblend 1.5 cu ft, new company I use changed it to .5 cu ft gravel bed, 25 lbs. Calcite, balance of the 1.5 cu ft total bed is birm, have to call them every 6 months to add Corosex because I start to get blue stains and need to raise the pH, wish I would have gotten a tank with a dome hole for easy addition of minerals, etc.),
    1.0 cu ft water softener with 8" x 48" tank with Fleck 7000 control valve (BLFC 0.50)(yellow injector), 18" x 33" brine tank with Fleck 2310 brine valve and float assembly and a salt shelf/grid.

    Miscellaneous information : we get grey/black sediment in the toilet tanks, we get a pink/red stain line at the toilet bowl water level line, we occasionally get blue staining at the tub where the water flow from the shower hits and at the toilet bowls (I assume this is from a lower pH which leaches copper from the pipes and stains these fixtures, adding Corosex to the pH neutralizer seems to help), all water to exterior spigots bypasses the water conditioning equipment, each spigot has its own pleated filter prior to exiting structure. Will need to calculate my usage and service flow rates to see if the 1.0 cu ft softener is adequate. Would like to know how to monitor the flow rates prior to and after the pH neutralizer and softener. Are there inexpensive inline flow rate meters which measure in GPM? Or can I just plumb in a drain valve and use the bucket/timer method?

    Raw Well Water test : 4/17/12
    Copper 0.02 mg/L
    Iron 0.19 mg/L
    Manganese ND
    Chloride 134.2 mg/L
    Hardness 143 mg/L
    *Sodium 54.0 mg/L (limit = 28)
    Sulfate 23.1 mg/L
    Nitrate as N 1.7 mg/L
    Nitrite as N ND
    Color 5 CU
    Odor 0
    PH 6.6 SU
    Turbidity 1.9 NTU

    Post Treatment Water Test : 4/17/12

    Colifom bacteria : absent
    e Coli bacteria : absent
    Chlorine, residual ND
    Copper 0.07 (+0.05)
    Iron 0.01 (-0.18)
    Manganese ND
    Chloride 137.5 (+3.3)
    Hardness ND
    *Sodium 143.9 (+89.9)
    Sulfate 22.9 (-0.2)
    Nitrate as N 1.7 (same)
    Nitrite as N ND
    Color 0 (-5)
    Odor 0 (same)
    PH 7.0 (+0.4)
    Turbidity 0.1 (-1.8)

    Hope this helps.
    I appreciate any and all advice/opinions.
    Please also refer to my first post #1

    Thank you
  7. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,839
    Location:
    Ontario California
    http://www.pentairwatertreatment.co...nt/Bulletins/599-7000 Sizing Instructions.pdf

    Check out this service bulletin. Many years ago when the 7000 was introduced, many of the smaller dealers were not well educated in the soft water refill and the way the system was set up. The water refills the brine tank through the injector so the BLFC must be smaller than the injector. Their is no real problem with a small BLFC, it just makes for a long refill time. The same amount of water is put into the brine tank regardless. The system gives soft water to the house during brine refill, so it has absolutely no negative affect. You can use the .125 on any system, but a 5 cu. ft. softener set at 12 pounds per cu. ft. would take almost 3 hours to put the proper amount water back into the brine tank.

    Here is a service bulletin for removing the injector. The easiest way to depressurize your system is to simply turn the water off to the house and open some soft water faucets. http://www.pentairwatertreatment.co...nt/Bulletins/407-7000 Quick Connect Clips.pdf

    For your system, a #000 or #00 injector and a .125 BLFC would be the right combination. You would need to set your brine refill to 22 minutes, and your system capacity to 24,000 grains.

    Hope this helps. You may also want to buy some resin cleaner and chemically clean your resin annually. You have a small amount of iron, this will negatively affect your resins capacity over time. A simple and cheap cleaning will lessen this problem.
  8. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Dealer lack of education is a fault of the control valve manufacturers not enforcing educational requirements are being satisfied by their distributors, rather than the responsibility of the distributors' dealers.

    I was a dealer for over 25 years and bought from many huge distributors and a very small distributor. They all put in the flow controls and injectors required for the size of the equipment I ordered (softener or filter) unless I specifically told them about special requirements. When I bought a case of control valves I also ordered the size of flow controls and injectors I wanted to use in them and installed them myself.
  9. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,839
    Location:
    Ontario California
    anyways, as I said, many companies would not properly sell or distribute equipment, that is why your control valve is set up improperly. It will actually work quite well even with the wrong injector and BLFC. The real problem is when you try to use the system in an extremely salt efficient manner. With safety factors, non variabgle brining, etc, most people would never even know that the valve is set up incorrectly. Not sure how it would be Flecks or Clacks fault when a small dealer who buys from a secondary distributor who buys from a primary distributors fault.
  10. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Nah, all the distributors I bought from dealt directly with Autotrol, Clack, Fleck etc..

    Now although I never bought from either of them, the plumbing supply houses dealt with your type of distribution through factory reps but...

    I guess you know the dealer and his supplier and their supplier.

    Are you sure the 7000 has variable brining?
  11. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Ditto and Gary,

    I think I understand what both of you are saying. As I recall, the dealer, installer, who sold me the softener and changed out most of the components of the system that I originally purchased and installed (I'll give a brief history later), replaced the 7000 control valve, which came with the unit, within a few days of the initial install, because it was malfunctioning. So, this means they replaced it with another 7000, with incorrectly spec'd parts for my specific tank size. This might also imply that they just ordered another valve or grabbed another one from their shop, and installed it without even checking if the parts were correct for my resin tank size. This would justify my perception of their incompetence, which is why I don't use them, to maintain my system, anymore.

    So, back to properly sizing the BLFC, injector, (and the DLFC? is this part of the injector? If not then where is it located and how do I check the size? Is there a certain size that is required to go with the new BLFC and injector which I will be replacing?) for my tank size. After I checked to see what color the present injector was (yellow),
    I went online to see where I could purchase the proper size injector and BLFC. The site I found, http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-48483384951716_2222_16208582 shows six different available colors for specific diameter tanks. I noticed that all of these injectors are yellow on one side and was hoping that I don't need to remove the existing injector to check to see if it is, in fact, a yellow one. I presume that it is, in actuality, a yellow injector (for a 20" not an 8" tank) because the Fleck Performance Bulletin no. 407 http://www.pentairwatertreatment.com/PentairFiles/Pentair%20Water%20Treatment/Bulletins/407-7000%20Quick%20Connect%20Clips.pdf which dittohead so kindly supplied me with, shows how the red quick connect clip can be used as a tool to remove the injector assembly. The picture shows that the tank size specific color portion of the injector would be on the top and could be determined without having to remove the injector. I am hoping this is correct? Please advise.

    Next, The Fleck Performance Bulletin no. 599 (7000 Sizing Instructions)(thanks dittohead) http://www.pentairwatertreatment.com/PentairFiles/Pentair%20Water%20Treatment/Bulletins/599-7000%20Sizing%20Instructions.pdf shows that a #000 (brown) is to be used for my 8" tank, with a .125 BLFC, and the DLFC column shows 1.5 GPM. Is the DLFC flow controlled by both the BLFC and the injector? the injector only? or an actual DFLC button? within the injector? I understand that dittohead stated I could also use the #00 (violet) which is specified for 9" and 10" tanks. I would assume this is because there is no #000 (brown) shown available at this site http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-48483384951716_2222_16208582 or elsewhere? So, if I get the #00 (violet), with the .125 BLFC, the Fleck 7000 Sizing Instructions show the DLFC to be 2.0 GPM. Do I need to order this DLFC? or is it part of the injector?

    To be continued...
  12. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68

    Thanks dittohead,

    So, as mine is set up now, with the .5 BLFC and yellow injector, and with the system programmed as I stated above in paragraphs 7 and 8 of post #1 when I started this thread. Approximately how much salt and water is my softener using per regen? What is the salt dose? Correct terminology?

    Will this change when I replace the BLFC and injector, with the brine refill set to 22 minutes as you have instructed?

    I have some resin cleaner. It is Super Iron Out. I add it regularly when refilling the brine tank with solar salt. I generally add (2) 40lb bags of salt and 1/4 cup of SIO between each bag.

    Would I use the SIO to do the annual resin cleaning?

    What is the preferred procedure?

    Before of after sanitizing with bleach?

    I understand it is inadvisable and maybe even dangerous to do the sanitizing (preferred procedure?) and resin cleaning at the same time.
  13. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68

    Hello Gary,

    Thanks for your input.

    I think the 7000 may be set up to do variable brining.

    Here is a pdf of the Master Programming Mode for the 7000 http://www.hydrotechwater.com/PDF/Manuals/Fleck/Fleck%207000%20Insert.pdf
    Page 3 item 2 refers to it as dFFF, I think. I'm uncertain if the piston/cam type is the same for all 7000 valves or if this part of the valve is interchangeable, so as to allow for variable brining. Hope I said that correctly.
  14. F6Hawk

    F6Hawk New Member

    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Alaska
    11 minutes times 0.5 gpm yields 5.5 gallons, times 3 lbs per gallon gives you 16.5 lbs per regen.

    22 minutes times .125 gpm yields 2.75 gallons, times 3 lbs per gallon gives you 8.25 lbs per regen.

    If you have a cartridge filter before your softener, I would add the 1/4 cup SIO to that, run some water to get the SIO into your softener, then either put the softener into manual bypass or just don't run any water for a couple of hours to allow some contact time between the SIO and resin. Alternatively, you can add the SIO to the brine tank just before a regen, but then you won't get the contact time unless you stay up late to make sure it happens. It is my opinion that without a fair amount of contact time, the SIO is not as effective against the iron buildup. (Then again, your iron is relatively low).

    I would never mix SIO and bleach.
  15. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    F6Hawk,

    Thanks for chiming in (whatever that means? lingo in forums?) and letting me know, that by replacing the existing .50 BLFC and the existing yellow injector with a (#00 violet? for a 9"' or 10" tank) one, haven't seen a brown one (#000) available for the 8" tank I have, that I will be reducing my salt (and water?) usage by 50%. That's great!

    I don't have a cartridge filter before my softener, but thanks for the suggestion. I thought I had read some input on this forum about how to allow contact time for the SIO or bleach to work better, but I can't seem to locate that info. Any links would be appreciated.

    Any ideas about the DLFC I mentioned in my prior post? Thanks for confirming not mixing the SIO and bleach...I never intended to, I just wanted a confirmation and I also need instructions on how to actually do a resin cleaning with SIO and I need instructions on how to do a sanitizing, using (what amount of?) bleach.

    Anybody? I still don't have any answers pertaining to my original post.

    I understand that I will need to replace the BLFC and injector and? DFLC?
    But I don't see how this affects how I sanitize and clean the resin.

    I guess I need to learn how to make my posts really specific and to only ask one question at a time. It seems that by giving too much info or by asking duelling questions that the original quest gets lost in the explanation. I thought that by giving all the pertinent info, at the start, that a specific question would be answered more reliably.

    Please understand that I really, really, appreciate all the input from all the knowledgeable folks here and that I am, just now, learning how to best acquire more knowledge about water purification and conditioning.

    Thanx to all for their time and responses!
  16. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    DFFF is down flow brining and refill first. That means the refill (add water to the salt tank) is done as the first cycle of the regeneration as opposed to being the last position of a regeneration.

    That is not variable brining which means the control valve varies the amount of refill water to make brine with which changes the salt dose used per regeneration.

    Do not do the SIO the way hawk suggests. That way means the resin bed is still compacted instead of fluffed up which separates the beads to make regeneration or cleaning much more complete.

    And you are much better off without a prefilter unless you have a Kinetico water powered wonder type softener.
  17. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Thanks for the advice Gary,

    I would like your advice on how to best use the SIO to clean the rein bed. Would you be so kind as to give me step by step instructions.
    Would you sanitize the bed first and then do the SIO cleaning? Would you also instruct me on how to sanitize the resin bed?

    Thanks in advance
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    It doesn't matter which you do first, they both do different things to the resin.

    Your way of using SIO is ok but a better way is to mix it (1/4-1/2 cup depending on the size of the softener) in a gallon or two of water poured into the salt water in the salt tank and do a manual regeneration. The same for using non scented bleach. Sanitizing a softener should only been done rarely or when the softener has been proven to be causing an odor. Or when the well is shocked and with the chlorinated water from the well.
  19. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Thanks for the quick response Gary,

    I had thought I had read a thread at this forum (can't seem to find it) that was a more complex cleaning which involved dissolving the SIO, as you state, then pouring it in the brine well, running a manual regeneration, and then stopping the regeneration, at a certain cycle, by unplugging the control valve and allowing the SIO or other resin cleaner some time to cleanse the resin. I may be mixing up this, supposed, method with a method which was instead suggested for sanitizing with unscented bleach, using a similar delayed regeneration technique to allow the bleach time to sanitize the resin. Any suggestions on a more rigorous cleaning or sanitizing method or links to these techniques would be greatly appreciated.

    I have never cleaned or sanitized the 1.0 cu ft of seven year old resin in my tank. So it would be a rare occasion. I would like to do so in comprehensive manner in order to maintain the health of the resin in my softener system.

    Thanks again
  20. gojoe3

    gojoe3 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    I found this article on "Resin Sterilization" if anyone is interested. http://www.wqpmag.com/resin-sterilization
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