Please explain flange rings

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by molo, Oct 5, 2006.

  1. molo

    molo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Location:
    cold new york
    This is my second inquiry, are wax better than waxless? What brands are best?

    Thanks
     
  2. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    I've never tried the waxless. But as far as best brands go, the wax seems to be the same in every brand of wax ring I've tried. They make wax rings with a horn and wax rings without. Everyone has their own preference. There's no big difference in any of it. The main thing is to not get any wax on you, cuz it's a royal pain to clean it off.

    Here's a link to a broader discussion of wax vs waxless rings.

    http://bbs.mrlandlord.com/qanda/datafiles/1217342.mgi2#1217342
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2006
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  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Wax can last a very long time. Waxless should last a very long time. One has been proven, the other is still iffy. The waxless relies on a rubber seal - probably neoprene, which is pretty stable stuff. You can remove a toilet set with a waxless seal, and replace it while reusing the seal; can't do that with wax. A waxless seal will accomodate a little flex or rock (even though you should fix that), a wax seal can't.

    That being said, I'm using two waxless seals on the toilets in my home.
     
  5. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    My two toilets have waxless rings and I have had no problems with them.
     
  6. rudytheplbr

    rudytheplbr 36 Journeyman Plbr

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2006
    Occupation:
    New ****, remodel ****, repair plblg
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Personally I've used wax rings for the 30 some years I've been a plumber, and never had a problem w/them. I believe in them, and if I have to pull a w.c. I usually just reshape the wax ring to provide the watertight seal and remount the w.c. to the closet flange: again, no problems with leaks.

    Rudy:)

    EAT "WILD ALASKA SALMON" IT'S GOOD FOR YOU AND YOURS!!:)
     
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Waxless

    The couple of waxless ones I have used suggested placing the seal in the pipe and then setting the toilet onto it, using the supplied cardboard spacer to force it onto the toilet before collapsing. I think that is accepting too much on faith, so I put them on the toilet first and then set them into the pipe. It requires two people, one to set the toilet and one to guide it into position, but even doing it the recommended way would require someone to position it over the opening, otherwise it would go down off center and compress the spacer without engaging onto the bowl's outlet.
     
  8. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    I keep it simple and only use the single wax rings. Water and wax will never get along, ever.

    If you correctly set any toilet, the only reason it would leak would be due to using a plunger and blowing it out because the clog was beyond the toilet.


    I have to replace rings on more toilets these days because either someone used a neoprene rubber ring (rarely I see these but they are showing up) and those damn horned rings.

    There is only 3/4" inch of wax above that lip in those horned rings. Sometimes less and if that flange is higher than industry standard, expect a leak with just time or one simple shot with the plunger.

    Only time I used a horned ring is on a cast iron flange, concrete floor. That's it. And even then the only reason I'd be using one was because I ran out of the regular ones on the truck.

    Any time I go on a call for those waxless types, they are leaking because the horn wouldn't stay sealed to the toilet or was bumped loose upon installation.

    Just remember the K I S S motto and you can't go wrong.:p :confused:
     
  9. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Location:
    Ohio
    Horned and regular wax rings have the same amount of total wax thickness, so what is it about them that you think causes leaks?
     
  10. Bill Arden

    Bill Arden Computer Programmer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Occupation:
    computer programmer
    Location:
    MN, USA
    I am using a horned wax ring on my toilet and have not had any leak problems.

    This was a tricky install since I cut the toilet flange off to keep it from plugging up.

    1. I smeared in and pulled wax off of the base of the unit until I was sure that the wax adhered to the bottom of the toilet.
    2. I then pressed the wax ring on to the bottom of the toilet.
    3. I set it in place and sat on it to squish the wax ring down.
    4. I removed the excess wax that oozed up threw the mount holes and added the nuts.

    The horn part in a way acts as a toilet flange directing the water into the center and reduces wax erosion due to solids. This is important when stacking wax rings or in strange situations.
     
  11. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area

    Buy a horned ring and take it apart. The horn part is usually 3/4" down in the wax. Has everything to do with whether that horn fits correctly into the flange or is the flange too high......thus compressing the wax the total distance.

    I can't count the number of times that I pull a toilet and horn is free of wax, leaking. And the wax isn't on the toilet either.


    Even better, someone or a plumber comes in before me and distorts/destroys that same horn because a closet auger caught it.

    Everyone has to remember that all these little gadgets and "new improvements" didn't exist all these years before. Plumber's putty was the norm and then to wax.

    By all means though I have to condone their use indirectly because you are lining my pockets by doing so.

    :rubs money clip:
     
  12. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Location:
    Ohio
    No wax on the toilet base = wet base when the wax was installed. A dry toilet base can't compress wax and not have it stick to it.
     
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