Newbie: Selecting between the Fleck models

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by LatorGator, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. LatorGator

    LatorGator New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Florida
    I would like to know which would be a better option for a water softener system. I have narrowed it down to between
    Fleck 9100SXT and Fleck 7000SXT. I am concerned if I buy the 7000SXT , it may end up regenerating once the required gallons of water has been used ( metered ) and it may not do that during the 2:00 am time period. However I am also wondering if 9100SXT is an overkill for a home use?

    Here are the links from where I am thinking of buying it from.

    http://www.qualitywaterforless.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F-AR48-91SXT
    http://www.qualitywaterforless.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F-R48-70SXT

    Here are the details about my water quality.

    Hardness: 13 GPG
    pH: 10.9
    Chlorine: < 1 ppm
    TDS: 261 ppm
    Iron: 0
    Sulfide: 0

    Any help appreciated.
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Twin alternating systems are the most efficient design, but they are typically overkill for regular residential applications. There is only 1 person I have ever known that will make an argument that a twin alternating is less efficient, lol, that is a ridiculous argument that should be ignored. That being said, if you can size a single tank softener to regenerate every 7+ days, you are reaching a very high efficiency to where a twin alternating system design would not be justified. The additional complexity, cost, and foot print should all be considered. Twin, tri, and quad systems are the norm for commercial applications where daily or even multiple times a day regeneration are the norm. A small restaurant may use 3000 gallons per day, that would require a 15 cubic foot system to get to the 7 days between regenerations. That would obviously be a silly size to put in a restaurant when a small twin alternating unit can do the job just fine. Twin alternating systems are common residentially in very high hardness areas, or houses with a lot of people and the water usage is excessive.

    A common issue in my area is some areas have hardness in excess of 90 grains. With only 6 people, that would require a 10 cu. ft. system to get to the 7 days between regeneration. Even if we pushed the regenerations to every 5th day, the system size would still be massive.

    For your application, a standard single tank unit would be fine, assuming you have less than the Brady Bunch living in your house. My real concern is the pH. Where did you get the readings? Well or municipal? I see the chlorine level, that is usually only checked on municipal supplies, but that also cant be given by the municipality, it would be a range, and the range would very rarely be <1 ppm.

    PM sent
  3. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    LatorGator, if you can size a single tank softener to regenerate every 7+ days, you are reaching a very high efficiency to where a twin alternating system design would not be justified. The additional complexity, cost, and foot print should all be considered.

    Unless you can program a 7000stx for immediate regeneration, it will always regenerate at the time you program it for as long as you keep the time set to actual time. I.E. if the power goes off and the time of day is incorrect, it will regenerate at what it thinks is 2AM instead of at real time 2AM.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  4. LatorGator

    LatorGator New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Florida
    Hi Gary & DittoHead,

    Thank you both for your reply.

    Hi dittohead,
    I got the readings from the Kinetico guy. He came by and did the water test at my place and gave me those readings which says chlorine < 1 ppm. Is this not correct?

    Hi Gary,
    For a family of 4 and the usage of 75 to 100 gallons, I sized it to 32,000 Grain Capacity. However I am thinking of buying the 48,000 grain capacity one just to have some buffer. Do you know how long it takes for a 48,000 to regenerate? You mentioned 'unless you can program a 7000stx for immediate regeneration, it will always regenerate at the time you program it'. Do you know if the 7000sxt has a immediate regeneration option?


    From both of your repiles I get the feeling that the 7000SXT is the correct one for my use. Am I correct?

    Thanks.
  5. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    <1 ppm chlorine is fine. Municipal supplies are supposed to maintain between .5 to 4 ppm.

    7000SXT has a "metered immediate" FI regeneration setting but is rarely used except for pre treatment w/ lockout to commercial equipment.

    48K softener is almost always preferred over the 32K. 50% larger for about the same cost.
  6. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    "Unless you can program a 7000stx for immediate regeneration, it will always regenerate at the time you program it for as long as you keep the time set to actual time. I.E. if the power goes off and the time of day is incorrect, it will regenerate at what it thinks is 2AM instead of at real time 2AM."

    You do not want immediate regeneration, and you do not want it to regenerate when you are using water, so keep the time of day set correctly.

    What constant SFR does your house require? A "32k" only gives you 9 gpm. A "48k" 12 and a "64k" 13. Do you know how to size based on salt efficiency? There is a link in my signature for that.

    Most all residential softeners will take about the same length of time to complete a regeneration; about 60-75 minutes.
  7. LatorGator

    LatorGator New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Florida
    Hi Gary & dittohead,

    >> You do not want immediate regeneration, and you do not want it to regenerate when you are using water, so keep the time of day set correctly.


    This is the part that confuses me. If I understand correctly a metered water softener (such as the 7000SXT) will start regeneration after I have used up the 'n' number of gallons of water. Correct? If so then what happens if my usage of the say 48000 gallons of water ends up at 9:00 o clock in the morning? Do I have to wait until the 2:00 a.m the next day to get soft water? Will I be without soft water the entire day or is there some kind of reserve system?

    Also can you suggest any good carbon filter to attach to the water softener?
  8. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,926
    Location:
    IL
    See www.caitechnologies.com/images/PDFs/7000SXT.pdf

    On page 14 and 15 see Fixed Reserve Capacity (typical) and Variable Reserve (where the recharge uses less salt if there is a lot of capacity remaining). Then see Safety Factor (20%? typical), Fixed Reserve Capacity (0 typical)

    So with a single tank, you still have part of the capacity when you make the commitment to regen that night. So the reserve gets you through the remaining time until 3am or whenever you choose. If you did not leave enough reserve, there will still be softening past your capacity number. However the softening will be less.

    If you choose the variable reserve, you will fill the brine tank shortly before using the brine, and the amount of water will vary according to how much softening capacity is figured to have been used up. That is not used by most people. to find discussions of that, include "dfff" in your searches.
  9. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    A good carbon filter, a tank similar to the softener is the only way to do it properly. A Big Blue or similar is not a good filter for whole house applications. It is common, we sell hundreds of them a month to dealers, and they are very problematic. A true tank design is much better.
  10. LatorGator

    LatorGator New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks Reach4,

    So what I understand from this is that there is a reserve settings that will allow me to keep some reserve of soft water in the tank until the regeneration happens. Based on my water consumption over a period I need to find the best settings for the reserve. Is this correct?
  11. LatorGator

    LatorGator New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks dittohead,

    Good to know about the big blue filters versus the tank design. Can you recommend any carbon tanks? or what to look for when selecting one?

    My neighboring friend had his Rainsoft installed last week. After the initial usual sales pitch of 4K+ , he finally got it installed for 2K. The rainsoft system (EC4) claims that it is both a water conditioner and a water softener ( it has a brine tank too ) and it removes chlorine. Is there a equivalent Fleck model that removes chlorine or is this something proprietary to rainsoft?
  12. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    The Rainsoft EC4 is a fairly decent unit and your neighbor got a good price for it compared to what they usually sell for. It has its problems though. The very limited amount of dechlorination media means that it needs regular rebidding, and they are not shy about charging a lot of money for it. I prefer 2 individual units, or a stacked tank design. PM sent.
  13. LatorGator

    LatorGator New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Florida
  14. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I would not recommend purchasing equipment from a UPS store, will leave it at that. PM sent.
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