New filter and softener needed - reccomend pls

[Ternzer]

Hi,

I need some help putting a system together. Thanks to the forum i have a pretty good idea on what to do but need some of you water guru’s to tweak it for me.

First some background. About 2 years ago i got some input here about how to rebuild my Culligan super S valve and rebed the centaur carbon. Water cleared up decent for the last 2 years. But as expected it was a temporary fix. Well, last weekend the piston stuck and broke the valve. I had some old parts laying around so i was able to temporarily clean and fix the valve. This bought me the time to get the water re-tested and figure out a new system so i can dump the culligan crap left from the previous owner.

So here are my newest water results in mg/L–
- Iron 2.66
- Manganese 0.126
- Hardness 140
- TDS 164
- Sulfate 27.4
- Sodium 1.64
- Cloride 2.00
- Nitrates/nitrites 0
- No iron bacteria – had lab test
- PH 7.12

Some other info:

- Water has hydrogen sulfide and the cold water stinks fresh from the well
- If i let the water stand it will turn a bit yellow.
- The well is 40’ deep and has great flow. From the ¾ valve by the tank i get about 18+ GPM
- I have 1 inch copper from the well and pressure tank to the filter. (i may swap out for 1" pex)
- We are 2 adults and 3 kits and average 350 to 400 gallons a day
- we have 2 full baths, 1 half bath and a 3/4 bath (toilet shower)
- We have a 0.7 cf Culligan softener that is 15 years old that i will replace too

My 2 main concerns are Iron and smell so here is what i am thinking:

- 1.5 cf 10 x 54 (or 2.0?) Katalox with fleck 7000stx. I prefer the 10" tank to the 12" i would need for 2.0. I like the idea of Katalox. From what i can tell at my levels i wont need a bleach rinse anymore. like i did with the Centaur.

- 1.5cf 10 x 54 softener with fleck 7000stx. the valve is probably overkill but I prefer the same valve for future maintenance simplicity.

I attached some photos of the valve from last week. This rusty buildup is a result of the last 2 years with a 10/5 backwash every other day. This buildup is also what caused the valve to fail. Is the fleck 7000 designed to better handle this? I don't mind cleaning every few years if i know i need to do it. Would some type of big blue pre - filter in front of the Katalox unit be a solution? I don't want to be replacing a pricey filter each month either though.

Please give me your input and thoughts. I don't want to be re-doing this again in 2 years. I would also like some input where to go for it all. I have looked at the cleanwaterstore and a few others but would prefer to support some of the good people here provided they are reasonably priced.

Thanks for looking
Troy

 

[Reach4]

I have 1 inch copper from the well and pressure tank to the filter. (i may swap out for 1" pex)

Copper pipe is very good unless you have acidic water.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Ternzer]

all that info and i forgot the PH! it is 7.1. I dont mind sweating the pipe for the new system but PEX can make a person lazy. the rest of the house is 3/4 copper.

 

[Reach4]

all that info and i forgot the PH! it is 7.1. I dont mind sweating the pipe for the new system but PEX can make a person lazy. the rest of the house is 3/4 copper.

I was not implying that you should not mix in PEX for the stuff you are changing. I was thinking you were considering replacing the copper line from the well to the house.

Your distances are short, but note that PEX has the same OD as copper, but it has thicker walls. Sometimes people will use the next larger size of PEX if there is concern.

 

[Ternzer]

Na. the well to the house is about 100 ft of 1.25 black plastic. From the foundation to pressure tank is 1.25 PVC. Tank to the filter is about 2 feet of 1" copper. any thoughts on what i am thinking for the filter and softener setup?

 

[Reach4]

any thoughts on what i am thinking for the filter and softener setup?

I am watching with interest.

My Centaur Carbon filter is doing a good job for me so far.

 

[ditttohead]

Pipe size/velocity... 1" copper may have a larger ID, but 1" Pex has a higher velocity rating, so... both have very similar flow rates... as per UPC. See the attached link for a decent chart of pipe sizes/velocity ratings and an explanation of the rating. http://media.wix.com/ugd/a3c37f_9e09c8494db84ab7aea08748a72f7933.pdf
All valves will have the problem you have shown when water has high levels of iron and manganese. Also, don't let the charts fool you. Katalox light is one of the best medias available for iron and manganese reduction, but all manganese dioxide ore based medias have limitations. ORP, DO, pH, etc all play roles in the effectiveness of iron reduction systems. Air injection is an excellent way to add dissolved Oxygen to the water but creates it s own unique problems. Chlorine injection, Hydrogen peroxide, etc all work, but all have pros and cons. If you want to minimized maintenance and iron problems in your plumbing and valves, you may want to design and build a very simple system that is extremely easy to maintain. A simple chlorine injection, contact tank, and a backwashing carbon. Clogging of the pipe between the chlorine injection and contact tank is common, but if you make the pipe size a little larger, or use a semi flexible material like pex, this can be fairly easy maintain. The larger pipe size may give you a little longer time between the pipe fouling, but... the larger pipe also slows the velocity adding to the buildup... I still contend it lasts a lot longer than smaller higher velocity pipes that are supposedly less prone to buildup.

 

[Ternzer]

Thanks Dittohead
So is it safe to assume that i am looking at one of 2 situations? Either i have a chlorine injection system to maintain or i need to disassemble and clean the valve every year or 2? honestly i would prefer the latter. an hour or so for cleaning an inspection is better time spent in my opinion. So that being the case would the 1.5 Katalox be a good solution? or am i better with Air injection and catalytic carbon?

 

[ditttohead]

Unfortunately too many companies will give you an absolute answer to that question. Too many companies feel they have figured out a one size fits all cure for iron. We are a contract assembly company for many companies all over the world and we make dozens of different iron reduction systems. Some are simple, and they worl most of the time. Others are comp[lex and they work nearly all the time.
Here are a few of my favorites.
1: Chlorine injection, contact tank, Catalytic Carbon w/ clinoptilolite under-bedding. This combo works the vast majority of the time. In some instances, a tank of Katalox Light ahead of the carbon tank may be beneficial if the iron is excessively high, or the pH is excessively low, etc... A little complex, and a little expensive, but it works almost every time for iron, hydrogen sulfide, and manganese.
2: Hybrid Katalox/softener stacked systems. The katalox light typically removes the iron and the softener below will catch any remaining iron through the ion exchange process.
3: Air injection or air or chlorine regeneration and katalox light. Simple and effective and easily scalable. You can start with no air injection or air/chlorine regeneration and simply add it later if needed if the system is designed to accommodate this. Be careful as many system designs will not be scalable.
4: Chlorine regeneration Catalytic GAC, not a favorite as it works the least often, but when it does work it is very effective.
5: The simplest solution, and another one that has proven itself very effective in many applications is a simple backwashing calcite filter in low pH waters. The raise in pH has the tendency to assist in the change from ferrous to ferric, and the calcite is a fairly good sediment filter, though it is not technically rated as such
6: A simple air injection and Clinotilolite media backwashing system. I have many companies in the Northwest that use this system design. It is the lowest cost and depending on the water conditions it can be very effective. This is the least expensive and simplest system design that works.

This is just a short list, but as you can see, the different ways to reduce iron are extremely varied and each system design has its pros and cons. It also depends on too many factors in the water. There is no guaranteed way to reduce iron effectively that is cheap and works in all regions. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.

 

[Ternzer]

Ditto, thanks for your insight. I have been lurking around here long enough to know that you know your stuff. I also have learned that treating water is part art as well as science and you might just throw some random chance in there to be safe. Which is why i am here asking for input rather than build something based on spec sheets.
I think my Super S would fall into option 4 with the Catalytic GAC and Chlorine regen. It has worked reasonably well for the last 10 years but the broken valve has given me the reason i need to kick my Culligan crap to the curb for an non-prop system.
I think you described what i am thinking with option 2 & 3. I plan a simple KL system ahead of good softener. With the proper Fleck 7000 i could add air or chlorine regen if needed. However if you think my water stats warrant either out the gate i would go with it. But 2 iron, .1 manganese and the HS it looked like 1.5cf of the KL would work nicely My Super S is rated at 5 gpm and it appears the 1.5 KL would flow around 7? Follow this up with an new softener an i should be all set.

 

[ditttohead]

The 7000 is not a good choice for chlorine or air regeneration. I will send you an PM,