Lead Drain Bend Question

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by djc621, Jan 9, 2007.

  1. djc621

    djc621 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I think I have a real problem. In a bathroom remodel the plumbers left a 4" lead bend with about 6 inches above the new floor height. The tiling contractor cut the lead bend even with the floor, (about 1/4 inch above the tile). I cannot take up the entire floor to replace the lead bend. I gather from other questions that I don't have enough lead pipe to make a lip over a brass floor flange. My questions are:

    1. How much lead pipe is necessary to be able to turn it back over the brass flange and hammer it down or solder it?

    2. If I remove the tile around the pipe I might have enough to make the lip to install the brass floor flange. (my subfloor is 3/4 ply then self leveling compound, then thinset, then tile (altogether about 1 1/4 inches) to get enough lead to bend back over the flange. I could bolt the brass flange to the plywood subfloor.

    3. Can I then use second brass flange (not the 1 1/8 deep) as a spacer to get the flange up to finished floor height?

    4. Is it possible to extend the pipe by soldering?

    5. If I go with the brass flange, should it be a deep flange? Should it be soldered or should I use plumbers putty?


    Thanks very much in advance for any advice you can provide.

    Regards,

    Deb
  2. I wouldn't of left lead in this application through the remodel job to begin with; someday it's going to have to come out.


    Replacing with PVC would of been a wise choice but given your circumstance they make a brass ring with a elongated turndown inner design that is about 3/4" and the lead can be soldered to the ring.

    If this lead is old and dirty.......your chances of getting a good bond to the brass are slim to none. I've tried it numerous times and all that happens is the lead disentegrates with the use of more heat. GOOD LUCK

    I'd let the plumbers come back and take care of it...

    [​IMG]
    ABS closet bend
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2009
  3. djc621

    djc621 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Thanks for the reply. This was new lead, when the floor was open. I didn't even realize it was lead until I was looking for a new toilet flange and realized that the pipe wasn't round, it was bent, so realized it had to be soft. I came to this forum and discovered it was lead. I would have to tear out a newly tiled floor, leveling compound, then the subfloor to replace it. I am trusting that since it was newly installed when the floor was open last year that it is in good shape. It appears clean.

    Since I won't replace it now, the remaining question is does it need to be soldered? Also, how much lead should there be above the top of the flange to flare back undereneath the flange?
  4. Well, you have the fact that the lead is clean in your favor.....that's a plus.

    I'm curious to know how they turned up new lead though without much effort it sounds like. I'm skeptical because that application is a task to do.....and why they didn't convert to PVC would mean the lead is sleeved into older lead.


    If that is the case and not bonded to the old.....it will leak out sewer gases where the two meet.

    Yes the lead needs to be solidly connected to the flange to prevent any leakage of wastewater/sewer gases.
  5. djc621

    djc621 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Thanks again for the response. I am in New York City and PVC is still not code here, therefore the lead drain bend is sleeved to cast iron. I got the deep brass flange but it appears to fit on the oustide of the lead drain bend. The drain bend has been pushed out of shape to where it is almost oval (the tile contractor appears to have pushed it out of shape to avoid cutting a tile). I will trim back the tile so that the fange fits securely down on the tile.

    I would assume then that the brass flange goes on the outside of the lead pipe and the lead pipe has to be hammered back to the flange. before it is soldered. I still have to find someone to solder it- I would never attempt it based upon everything you and others have said.

    Am I on the right track? Where is the solder joint? Is it on the pipe at the bottom of the flange or on the ring?

    Thanks again!
  6. in concrete buildings, no PVC, anywhere. Only cast iron, lead and copper.

    post a picture.

    david


  7. Ahhhhh

    If I would of known or seen your location in the right hand corner next to your post count........I would of known that factoid about PVC. On another site one of our moderators is a plumber in NY and everything is like it is in my area, 40 years ago and no plastic.


    That lead you speak goes to the inside, not outside of the flange, otherwise you'll never solder it. The flange you bought should turn down inwards and be real shiny so you can use an emery cloth to rough it up.

    Using flux on that ring, use a lead-based solder only, it will have a lower melting point which is crucial for adhering that lead to the ring. I'm no old timer but I know plumber1 has probably done more of these than hairs on his head. Those were the true plumbers of the profession back in the early years.

    Knowing how to use that heat of the torch is almost an art; too much heat in that application will have you blowing holes through that lead. I would think getting that ring hot and letting it transfer to the lead is the way they do it.
  8. djc621

    djc621 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Thanks for the response. I have attached a couple of pictures. It may be a bit difficult to tell but the lead drain bend is out of shape.

    Right now I am attempting to trim back the tile and some of the leveling cement and thinset so that the flange will sit flush on the tile.

    Attached Files:

  9. Awee damn, why didn't they foam sleeve that lead? That would of allowed you to roll that out round at that point without all the hard work you have to do to get that straightened out.

    The 3rd pic indicates you are doing it right......but that has to be a pain.

    If that lead has mortar stuck to it,,,,,,even a film of any kind, use gloves and some type of acid base like muriatic acid diluted 1 to 4 with water and make sure the lead is clean to solder to the ring.
  10. djc621

    djc621 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I'm going to keep chipping away at it - so to speak! I sincerely appreciate your help. Thanks!
  11. Just be careful you don't jab a screwdriver or anything through the lead....it's very easy to do when using blunt force with a hammer with a chisel.
  12. djc621

    djc621 New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I'm actually going to use a small awl and hammer and do it ever so gently. So, I'll be chipping for awhile. I do appreciate the warnings. Someone else mentioned 50/50 solder. You said lead solder. What is the difference?

  13. Don't hold me to this but the lead solder is pratically what you have as the lead closet bend.

    In the true sense of the word.....you might not even need to use a filler as the lead itself will bond to the flange when heated properly.....using the lead solder to dress the connection if need be.
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