Iron Removal Help

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by FenderBender, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. FenderBender

    FenderBender New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pelzer, SC
    Hi everyone, I came across this forum as I was trying to figure out what to do about my current situation. I am looking for some non-biased advice.

    Basic info:

    Constant pressure pump 22 GPM

    Well has a 30 gpm flow

    Filox filter tank has a 5600 controller

    6 cf air contact tank

    10 x 54 Filox tank

    iron is 1.4 ppm, manganese is .052 ppm, hardness 38 ppm, PH is 7.5



    So I have a 1.5 cf Filox system with a Venturi air injection system. Over the course of the first 6 months or year, all seemed fine. Over the last year we are smelling some sulfer, manganese is a slight problem and I am pretty sure some iron is passing through. My numbers are not that bad, so you would think this system should solve most of my problems.

    I have considered adding a chlorine or a peroxide system for additional aeration, but looking at the costs involved and reading some additional articles, I think my issue may be an inefficient aeration tank as well as inefficient mechanism for introducing air. I read my air tank should be he same size as my filox filter tank. It is a good bit smaller. I also read that the Venturi system can cause restrictions in the flow and easily clogs. I tested it the other night and it was not sucking in air when my costant pressure pump motor kicked ineach time so I know I have an issue here.

    My water guy wants to install a h2o2 system with no additional filter to removed the h2o2 before it makes contact with the filox at a $2000 clip. After much reading, I have lost faith in this guy.

    I am working with a well known online store that is suggesting a chlorine system, a holding tank and a carbon filter.

    What are your thoughts on me getting a bigger air contact tank and an air pumping system as a first step? I am thinking and Aermax. I just dont want to spend good money after bad.
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,387
    Location:
    IL
    I suspect you would be able to find a better media that would work with what you already have.
  3. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Media change won't help if the micronizer is not sucking air. I have to assume that at some point the micronizer was sucking air. If so, and the GPM was adequate at one time, you need to determine why it no longer works.

    These are high maintenance items. The micronizer needs to be cleaned and demineralized periodically. The line from the micronizer to the tank needs to be cleaned of iron buildup periodically.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,387
    Location:
    IL
    Good logic.

    I don't know how you clean them. Maybe it would be good to have two which you alternate while cleaning the other.
  5. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Having a spare would be nice but I'm way too cheap. It is recommended to install the micronizer with unions to make it easy to remove. You can put a straight pipe in for the duration that it takes to clean so that you can still have water.

    I soak the miconizer in a mixture of Super Iron Out and Zolvex. Then I use mechanical force to get what's left.

    The line to the tank gets gunked up with precipitated iron that resembles baby poop. I periodically run a snake through the line. A blend of air and water blasted through the line also helps.
  6. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,486
    Location:
    Alaska
    One on demand pump and a micronizer........equals no air getting into the the system....... They just do not play well together because the pump is never at the same gpm every time that it runs.

    Most micronizers need a steady flow of a give amount of water to work correctly.

    Some thing that might be looked at is some thing along the line of a AIO system, where air is drawn into the media tank that has the media every 3 or 4 days.
  7. FenderBender

    FenderBender New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pelzer, SC
    Thanks for all of the ideas. This is just what to was looking to gain from the posting.

    I have considered the media replacement. I definitely need to get rid of the micronizer. The only question is do I go with an aerator or just overhaul the whole system. In the short term, I am cleaning the micronizer. I plan to pull the head off and take a look at my media to determine if it is fouled. If so, then I'm thinking media replacement (activated carbon probably) and a peroxide system.
  8. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,486
    Location:
    Alaska
    The best way would be to either change the 5600 to the aio set up or just buy another 5600 that is already made into the aio style.
    There is really no way of telling by looking at the media as to the fouled or not.... but with its age I would say not fouled but not cleaned so that it can do its job.

    As to changing the valve , I my self like taking a standard and changing it to the AIO set up as that is how I do things, now I can get my hands on the new ones and do any number of times but I have also changed a standard valve to the Air draw set up and it works just as good, just not factory looks.
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,387
    Location:
    IL
    AIO(Air Injection Oxidizer) sounds interesting. What injects the air? Is the air injected by venturi action powered by the water flow during backwash?

    However I suspect FenderBender will benefit a lot by cleaning up his system as LLigetfa suggests.
  10. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,486
    Location:
    Alaska
    Air is brought into the top of the media tank by a Valve that has mods from a softener form to just draw air but not letting the air go to the pressure tank(check valve of sorts) .

    The AIO type is with fewer challenges than the old Microdine or WaterSoft Provitor systems in that the air is brought in the valve and not up stream from the filter media.

    Given the choice between simple and complex I will go with simple and fewer points to keep clean...
  11. lifespeed

    lifespeed Member

    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    California
    All I can add is you may be at or beyond the flow limits of that 5600 valve trying to backwash 1.5 cu ft of heavy Filox media.
  12. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,486
    Location:
    Alaska
    I agree that it would not be my first choice, more of the 2750 would be the choice.
    The 5600 will do it while not the best it will work as they have worked on greensand units of the same size.

    If it is either the SE or SXT controler for the 5600 then there are steps to change to help it out in cleaning and changing it to an AIO set up so that it works better.
  13. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,051
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I agree with the comments about getting rid of the micronizer. They are not designed for variable GPM pumps. I've seen two other air injection systems, one that uses an air pump and a flow sensor, and the other that uses a venturi but during the backwash cycle. I have concerns about adequate contact time with both systems since the air is introduced at the media tank although I've also seen two-tank systems. Mind you, your iron and manganese PPM is nowhere near as bad as mine.

    The comment about inadequate GPM to properly backwash your media is valid. If it doesn't get a good churn, it can turn into a glob. Periodically I open up the bypass on my micronizer to allow more GPM through and I manually backwash. A few times I forgot and let it go too long without a good shake-up and had to slap the sides of the media tank to get the gummed up media to move.
  14. FenderBender

    FenderBender New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pelzer, SC
    If I am reading the AIO advice correctly, I would need just the media tank and a modified control valve on top to bring air into my existing tank. I do like the thought of one tank and no air until the water gets to the tank. I have no idea where to find this head or how to modify my existing head. Any help here is appreciated. Could I do this with a 2510 and why is a 2750 better?


    My other option I was thinking would be to go with something like a Maxi-Vent with an air pump just ahead of the tank with the Filox. I would then removed the micronizer and also replace the control head on the Filox tank. Thoughts?


    I was thinking a 2510 would work. Why should I consider the 2750?


    Next, I was not sure if I can wire the AOI in the the pump since it is a constant pressure pump (Grundfos 22SQE15-220) or whether I need a flow switch.

    I have 1" pipe coming into the house, but 3/4" after the pressure tank.
  15. FenderBender

    FenderBender New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pelzer, SC
    OK, I found this:

    Fleck 2510 SXT Digital Control Valve with Oxygen Chamber for Backwashable Filters


    Is this what I need?

    Is it as easy as just removing the old control head and placing this on top?

    Thanks!
  16. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,486
    Location:
    Alaska
    That sounds about right as that would be the quick and easy way of doing in that there would be no fuss.
    The only real challenge would be getting the current valve off with out pulling the distributor tube up in the media tank, getting it back down would be a pain.
    Is your current set up SXT or non digital?
  17. FenderBender

    FenderBender New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pelzer, SC
    Non digital. I was a little worried about that tube. Is my worst case scenario that I would have to dump it out and refill?

    I have pretty much decided that the AIO is the way to go. Now I have to select the DLFC. It looks like 12-15 is the right number, should I just go for the 15?
  18. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,486
    Location:
    Alaska
    Drop a pm...

    There is away of taking the 5600 that you have and changing the power head and then the incoming point between the bypass and valve body adding the check valve and then on the brine piston block housing adding the brine piston and the check valve to the brine line 3/8 tube..

    There is away of removing the current valve with very little movement of the dist tube,, control comes off and the piston and seals spacers come out and then a standard screw driver to hold the dist tube while the body is turned.... little at a time but it keeps the tube from coming up.
  19. FenderBender

    FenderBender New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pelzer, SC
    PM sent. akpsdvan, you are the best. Thanks everyone for the help. I am going with AIO 2510, I just need some last advice on the backflow rate. Should I just go with 15GPM?
  20. lifespeed

    lifespeed Member

    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    California
    This might be one of those situations where it is worth it to go a couple steps further and take it all apart and dump it. My understanding is the heavy iron removal medias if not adequately backwashed can get stuck together in clumps. If this has happened to you and you don't loosen the media you won't really be solving the problem.

    If you're changing the valve I think that means you need to change the distributor tube to match. Just do the whole job with a new bottom screen too and you'll know exactly what you have in there and the media is free to be properly backwashed.
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