For plumbers ,please

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by toolaholic, Jun 14, 2006.

  1. toolaholic

    toolaholic General Contractor Carpenter

    Messages:
    874
    Location:
    Marin Co. Ca.
    what language are you using in your contracts,to cover the raising price of materials , and fuel? thank's much ,Tool
  2. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I'm not a plumber, but I would imagine English if they're in the US. Maybe an exception for Cali, Miami and some of Texas :D
  3. riseing prices

    the language you are talking about are the majic words...

    "prices are subject to availability"

    supply houses are useing these words to all plumbers....


    "subject to availability" meaning that the price we quoted you

    4 months ago is firm as long as the materials are still available at that

    price........ouch.

    buy it NOW from us at this price or we cannot lock in a price and hold it for

    you today for a job you "might be doing " this fall....

    if we aint got it in the fall at that price ,
    you are not gonna hold us to that old price.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    how plumbers are passing on their price increases to large tract

    builders that dont want to pay anything for the work being done anyway is

    questionable.

    They are probably exorbing most of the increases just to keep

    their men working, (usually men who arent loyal anyway , could care less about the companys problems, and only want to get paid on friday )

    eventuallly their costs will either have to be passed on

    or they will simply have to give up the wrok and lay off their dead wood.

    Most of those tract home builders are SKUM and will
    not allow the plumber any increases ......

    they go out and find the next sucker willing to take the bate.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2006
  4. toolaholic

    toolaholic General Contractor Carpenter

    Messages:
    874
    Location:
    Marin Co. Ca.
    thank's Mark,good suggestion

    laklee,you're a funney guy :p
  5. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    1 Due to the volatility of the brass and copper metals markets the materials cost of this contract is subject to change prior to its completion.

    2 the material pricing of this contract is subject to change at any time.

    3 A surcharge for the materials in this contract may be added at any time due to the fluctuating copper and brass market.

    4 Material costs in this contract are subject to change prior to completion of work.


    You can add any wording as long as it is clear.
  6. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    What I expect from the contractor is that he will manage his material procurement so that he can give me a firm price at the time of the contract, and that he will know the market and what he has to do to make money on that contract. As a customer, I am not in the business of buying copper pipe.

    At the time of signing, the contractor has the opportunity to buy or lock in the prices for his material. He might get a deposit from the buyer to cover the cost risk of immediate material purchases.

    There should be a provision for a cancellation charge if the buyer cancels the contract, covered by the deposit.

    For items that can't be ordered until some time late in the contract, the pricing could be tied to some index not under control of the contractor.

    I would not sign a contract with a contractor that gave him an open-ended way to increase prices after I signed the contract. How many plumbers are giving post-signing discounts now that the price of copper has dropped a bit?
  7. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Statements like the ones above are normaly reserved for comercial contracts that are large and may not start for months or a job that may take months or years to complete. A small home job may not have sections in the contract like that but I feel bad fro the contractor who wrote and signed a contract only to have his copper price go up 30% over night. Wire and copper pipe prices did just that recently.
  8. Just reading this thread brings back bad memories when I had to take on larger scale jobs where estimates were required. I'm so grateful that it's all behind me now. Nothing worse than being hustled by someone after the bottom dollar.

    No matter how hard I tried to hit my marks, I always had a diminished hourly rate when you did the math, which was quite painful sometimes. To me it seems that situations like that was what the customer was wanting all along, I was just the fool for doing it I guess. :confused:


    If you could do it, I'd specify labor charges only, customer buys the material. I had one customer about a month ago wanting me to install the drain line to a toilet by accessing the cleanout with a threaded male adaptor, turn up a cleanout and bring it through a wall. That is the easy part, the part I do not like is he wants me to install it without a vent. Well, a tee turned up for a cheater vent.

    Mind you, this guy is a Master Electrician and he's asking a Master Plumber to half ass a toilet installation.

    Needless to say, I never sent the estimate, a fault on not holding to my word. I'm hoping he never calls me to do work ever again. Anyone that wants me to risk my license so they can benefit by my expertise doesn't deserve my professionalism. The whole asking me for an estimate after I told him that the toilet needed to be vented sort of pissed me off. And from the way I told him what needed to be done to properly vent it per say KY code, he blew it off like that was never going to happen. Kinda the same way that I'm never coming back to work for the guy. :cool:
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2006
  9. Rugged -I graduated from the school of hard knocks too

    reading your post, it does take me back to about 15 years ago

    when I did a lot of new construction for builders....

    playing that game with those builders---wanting you to wait 90 days

    to be paid ect ect.....


    having them get angry with me when I made them sign
    work change orders to the job......
    that really pissed them off ---




    then watching them go bankrupt while they lie
    through their teeth at you about other upcomming jobs
    hoeping you dint file mechanics liens ... ect ect....


    trying to find decent helpers that would show up sober
    and ready to work every day.....


    I used to be scheduling the next days projects about this time
    every evening and hopeing things would go on schedule...


    No more of that horsehshit for me..

    I finally told them all to take a hike....
    and find another sucker


    I am so glad I just do service, and some re-model now...


    these are things you have to live through to understand....
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2006
  10. toolaholic

    toolaholic General Contractor Carpenter

    Messages:
    874
    Location:
    Marin Co. Ca.
    You've all been very helpful, thankyou

    all my work is strictly t+m. work's for me, and we have many repeat customers. I have a friend that bids large projects ,and I suggested I go to the brain well for some wisdom. As usual, you folks came through! thank's Tool :)
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