Floor Drain Rough-In Question

[Gundraw]

I am installing a few floor drains for a building. I was surprised at a few of the rules and wanted to make sure that the info I had was "good practice". Note that these will be installed under a slab.
I took a diagram I found online and modified to roughly what I want to do. All lines are 3" except the one branch listed as 2".

Questions:
1. The diagram shows all the drains wyeing into the drain and then 1/8 turn to go perpendicular to the trunk. I am assuming installing a wye and running it 45 degrees from the trunk is also ok.

2. My notes say that as long as any drain branch is less than 15' away from the trunk, and as long as the trunk is under 100' long, additional venting is not needed.

3. Can anything be drained into the "vent" line from above the slab or even an upper floor?

4. If a guy put a P-trap ABOVE the floor on the cleanout stub, could it also operate as a drain (kind of like what I have shown for the 2" drain).

 

[Breplum]

The 2" trap above the floor needs a vent, like for a washing machine. Overall the top half of the main drain pipe is venting the system.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jeff H Young]

Somethging looks wrong with a horizontal dry vent below the slab ?

 

[Gundraw]

Breplum, so you are talking about standpipe apparatus? Would that work for the cleanout as well if I wanted to drain something in there as well? Does the rest look ok?

Jeff, I cannot comment on that. I found this guide (UPC Combination Waste and Vent) that looked a lot like what i was trying to accomplish. I saw a few differentiations based on my needs, hence the questions above. Do note that the horizontal vent is "rolled up" to 45 degrees.

 

[wwhitney]

For the OP, is your project subject to the UPC or IPC?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

Breplum, so you are talking about standpipe apparatus? Would that work for the cleanout as well if I wanted to drain something in there as well? Does the rest look ok?

Jeff, I cannot comment on that. I found this guide (UPC Combination Waste and Vent) that looked a lot like what i was trying to accomplish. I saw a few differentiations based on my needs, hence the questions above. Do note that the horizontal vent is "rolled up" to 45 degrees.

Intresting I see one of the illustrations shows the dry vent rolling up presumeably beaneath the floor . this system has restrictions on use. has to be aprooved by AHJ the trap cant be above floor either

 

[John Gayewski]

The trap above the floor needs vented. If you drain into your vent the plan is legal, but only a sink can drain into it. Without draining into the vent the plan isn't legal and the vent needs to be vertical.

 

[Jeff H Young]

also a combination waste and vent system is only legal with AHJ aproval 910.2

 

[Gundraw]

Wayne. UPC.

So do we have consensus that this UPC recommendation presentation (linked in message #4) is NOT accurate?

Just to be clear about the traps:
1. The "trap above floor" shown in the picture would be a utility sink.

2. The second trap (not pictured) would be attached above the "cleanout" port and serve as a drain for an R/O system and/or a water softener. A standpipe style drain.

3. If #2 is not acceptable, then could this standpipe (with trap) dump into the "vent" line?

 

[John Gayewski]

Wayne. UPC.

So do we have consensus that this UPC recommendation presentation (linked in message #4) is NOT accurate?

Just to be clear about the traps:
1. The "trap above floor" shown in the picture would be a utility sink.

2. The second trap (not pictured) would be attached above the "cleanout" port and serve as a drain for an R/O system and/or a water softener. A standpipe style drain.

3. If #2 is not acceptable, then could this standpipe (with trap) dump into the "vent" line?

The only inaccurate thing, if you can call it that is the trap above the floor isnt vented. They are showing an S-trap, which isn't legal.

Your R.O. can drain into the vent.

With circut combination waste and vent I think the vent there are some different rules for what is allowed. I think this is a version of a combination waste and vent system. Your good to continue.

 

[Gundraw]

After rereading, I realize I need to clarify a few things:

1. I added the trap (traps) above the floor, this was not part of the original suggested plumbing, it only had in-floor p-traps.

2. For the P trap on the 2" line, which would likely see a utility sink, I could easily vent this to a dry vent.

3. For the potential drains into the vent, and into the Cleanout port, they could both be standpipe style drains for things like an R/O system and/or the drain lines off an AC evaporator.

So it looks like this mock-up may be potentially OK?

 

[wwhitney]

Is this the same building as your other thread? If so, you need to provide a complete floor plan of the building with all fixture locations. UPC 909.1 says (paraphrasing) that the combination waste and vent shall be permitted when nothing else works, so you need to confirm that nothing else will work.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

. I see the standpipe in post 11 marked as for r/o and hvac as being un vented illegal i would not allow it .
The sink you plumbed in should tie in downstream of the Combination w and v system As far as I can tell plus no idea if you are sizing your branches and vents correctly?
What are you doing here ? are you just building something with no permit? Im not above that but like ive said If you want legal it needs aprooved this is only legal if aprooved other wise its totaly against code. there has to be no other way to build it basicaly

 

[John Gayewski]

. I see the standpipe in post 11 marked as for r/o and hvac as being un vented illegal i would not allow it .
The sink you plumbed in should tie in downstream of the Combination w and v system As far as I can tell plus no idea if you are sizing your branches and vents correctly?
What are you doing here ? are you just building something with no permit? Im not above that but like ive said If you want legal it needs aprooved this is only legal if aprooved other wise its totaly against code. there has to be no other way to build it basicaly

Why would the ro drain be unvented? If anything the rest of the system would be unvented in the RO would be vented. It uses the vent the rest of the system does, since it's Upstream then the RO would be the only thing that is vented if you're excluding that the rest of the system.

I'm pretty sure a building with no toilets isn't gonna get very much scrutiny and adding an indirect drain to the vent of some for drains isn't going to fail it. Not much difference between this and circuit venting other than this needs extra big pipe.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Why would the ro drain be unvented? If anything the rest of the system would be unvented in the RO would be vented. It uses the vent the rest of the system does, since it's Upstream then the RO would be the only thing that is vented if you're excluding that the rest of the system.

I'm pretty sure a building with no toilets isn't gonna get very much scrutiny and adding an indirect drain to the vent of some for drains isn't going to fail it. Not much difference between this and circuit venting other than this needs extra big pipe.

the drawing was a bit sloppy perhaps that R/O hvac drain is not going into the top of the clean out as it apeared to me john.

i guess he can just go for it dont submit drawing to inspector just build it might fly without issue

 

[John Gayewski]

the drawing was a bit sloppy perhaps that R/O hvac drain is not going into the top of the clean out as it apeared to me john.

i guess he can just go for it dont submit drawing to inspector just build it might fly without issue

Well no now I'm looking back and he changed drawings from what I was referring to. He now has yet another unvented trap (which I think you were referring to) for the whereas before is pretty sure he was talking about the vent.

What I would do if I were this guy is hire a local plumber to consult. As he's mixing design concepts and changing them. A drainage standpipe probably won't fly. They are to be assigned a fixture and all traps need vented. There some different ways to vent a trap and it didn't seem like the concept is quite making to his design.

I'm also not sure you can have a building with out at lest one bathroom group in it. I think it depends on the type of building.

 

[Gundraw]

John, I added "standpipe" drains to anywhere I may want to have one just to illustrate. I would not necessarily need all of them.

The purpose of these standpipes is I find utility rooms with only a floor drain quite inconvenient. In all my houses, I always end up with a spiderweb of drain tubes and pipes "air gapping" into the floor drain. A/C condensor, dehumidifier, water softener, RO system... All go to another tube layed across the floor to step over and/or trip over. I would much prefer putting them above the floor with a standpipe that all the hoses can be ran/tethered along the the wall and have a purpose built place to drain.

This seem intuitive to me, but I can't say I have seen many standpipes set up this way. From the comments, it doesn't sound like code wants something like this either.

 

[Gundraw]

the drawing was a bit sloppy perhaps that R/O hvac drain is not going into the top of the clean out as it apeared to me john.

i guess he can just go for it dont submit drawing to inspector just build it might fly without issue

Yes, one proposed place to put the RO drain would be in the cleanout riser with a trap ABOVE the floor. That way, the trap could be removed to do any snaking of the drain. The other place would be the vent line with a P trap which would seemingly be equally as convenient.

 

[Jeff H Young]

John, I added "standpipe" drains to anywhere I may want to have one just to illustrate. I would not necessarily need all of them.

The purpose of these standpipes is I find utility rooms with only a floor drain quite inconvenient. In all my houses, I always end up with a spiderweb of drain tubes and pipes "air gapping" into the floor drain. A/C condensor, dehumidifier, water softener, RO system... All go to another tube layed across the floor to step over and/or trip over. I would much prefer putting them above the floor with a standpipe that all the hoses can be ran/tethered along the the wall and have a purpose built place to drain.

This seem intuitive to me, but I can't say I have seen many standpipes set up this way. From the comments, it doesn't sound like code wants something like this either.

Sorry tried helping but I dont even know what you are building , but Id suggest you not start till you can determine whether you are qualified to submit the plan I think something is way off just sounds all wrong

 

[John Gayewski]

John, I added "standpipe" drains to anywhere I may want to have one just to illustrate. I would not necessarily need all of them.

The purpose of these standpipes is I find utility rooms with only a floor drain quite inconvenient. In all my houses, I always end up with a spiderweb of drain tubes and pipes "air gapping" into the floor drain. A/C condensor, dehumidifier, water softener, RO system... All go to another tube layed across the floor to step over and/or trip over. I would much prefer putting them above the floor with a standpipe that all the hoses can be ran/tethered along the the wall and have a purpose built place to drain.

This seem intuitive to me, but I can't say I have seen many standpipes set up this way. From the comments, it doesn't sound like code wants something like this either.

We like to use floor sinks in place of floor drains frequently. They are better. They have grates thar can be drilled and much larger openings.