Drain Clogged Or Vent Issue?

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urbanwks

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Glad to join a forum like this, hopefully can get some help, as I'd like to fix this myself if possible.

We recently (~8mo) purchased a single-story house built in 1956 on a concrete slab (no basement). A few weeks ago, our master bath toilet began struggling to flush. Also, any actual flushing would be accompanied by a sewage smell coming from the washing machine floor drain about 30ft away. Started by plunging for about an hour, no change.

We had one of those chain plumbers come out. He ran a camera down the cleanout, about 30ft outside of the bathroom. Couldn't find any water anywhere after going about 40ft. Ran the camera down the washer floor drain (where the sewer smell would come from) about 20ft, and hit water starting a couple of feet down. Didn't see anything else of interest. Then he ran an auger down the toilet about 8-10ft. Hit water but nothing else. Same for when he ran it down the shower trap. From there, they wanted $400 to pull the toilet. Since I could do that for free in 3 minutes, and his visit was free since they couldn't unclog it, that was the end of that.

Since then I've done the following (in order):
  • -Removed the toilet. There is standing water starting about 6-8in down the drain.
  • -Ran an auger down the toilet drain about 20ish feet. Eventually hit something, but it's likely just a bend I couldn't get around.
  • -Sent "Main Line Cleaner" down the toilet drain. Followed the instructions and read up on it prior to using. Let it sit for about a day, and the water level dropped about 4". Directions said to flush with hot water, and after doing that it returned to the original level.
  • -Climbed up on the roof and ran an auger about 10-15ft down the air vent. The length would put it right around toilet level in the bathroom. Hit water about 3ft above that, then hit some sort of obstruction (or bend) that I couldn't remove.
  • -Used a garden hose bladder in the air vent. Didn't seem to make a difference. The vent is 3", and the bladder I got said 1-3", but it had some movement in it, so it's likely not big enough.

I bought the bigger bladder, but I'm waiting out some weather before I can climb back on the roof.

The sink and tub in the same room drain perfectly fine. We have another full bath where all fixtures work fine, and a half bath where both the toilet and sink drain perfectly fine.

Something interesting, though: in the bath with the toilet problem, if I turn on the sink and tub and watch the toilet drain, the standing water in it rises about 2-4", but that's all. It's like it's draining just enough but can't drain everything, and will never actually overflow.

Also, if we fill up the tub and let it drain, the toilet (when it was still in place) would gurgle. When it didn't flush, it would fill up and slowly drain down to almost nothing. This is what made me suspect the air vent in the first place.

Since we recently bought the house, I'm honestly not familiar with the details of where the plumbing is going. The stuff I can see appears to be PVC. If the answer is "have someone come fix it", so be it (probably going to try the bigger bladder first regardless).

I know this is a lot to digest, so any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks!
 

hj

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It is NOT air, but trapped air between the water in the pipe and the water in the toilet is WHY it does not flush. You have to eliminate the water in the pipe before it will work properly.I appears that whoever that first plumber was, he was NOT competent and you are also too inexperience to know how or where to use the proper sized snake. If you use a"bladder" from the roof, you will just flood the bathroom.
 

Reach4

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-Removed the toilet. There is standing water starting about 6-8in down the drain.
That is not a vent issue.

Tell us about that standing water. Is that standing water 1/4 inch deep, or does it fill the 3 inch pipe?

Can you put a small amount of water into the toilet flange continuously, and the standing water stays about the same level? Then stopping adding water, the standing water never drains away? It seems to me that that could be caused by a belly in the pipe, or it could be a clog in the bottom part of the pipe that serves as a dam that can pass water over the top.

I bought the bigger bladder, but I'm waiting out some weather before I can climb back on the roof.
That will push water somewhere. You want a spotter in the house if you run that bladder down the vent in case the water starts coming out of the closet flange or elsewhere.

Maybe get a drain cleaning specialist back with the toilet already pulled. That could be an independent drain specialist, or it could be that same chain person you had before. Sounds like he was doing credible work. A bigger cutter head may be what you need to remove that clog.

I am thinking I would maybe try the Brasscraft drain bladder into the closet flange. But getting a/the pro out again will have a better likely hood of success.

Your post is nicely written. My response is pretty rambling. I am not writing from experience.
 

urbanwks

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Thanks for the feedback.

you are also too inexperience to know how

I couldn't agree more. I wish I'd stop getting the experience, to be honest.

That is not a vent issue.
Tell us about that standing water. Is that standing water 1/4 inch deep, or does it fill the 3 inch pipe?

I measured about 8 inches from the top of the pipe to the water, and 8 more inches from the water until I hit the bend at the bottom.

That will push water somewhere. You want a spotter in the house if you run that bladder down the vent in case the water starts coming out of the closet flange or elsewhere.

Yeah I had the same thought and did have a spotter the first time I did this to shut it down if something like that happened. They watched all of the drains they could and the water came up nowhere. No sounds or no movement either. This water has to be going somewhere...I just find it odd that I run water down the vent, through water that's already in there, and it doesn't fill up...and doesn't come up anywhere else. So it's either going to the main where it should (in which case, where is the problem) or I guess it's just creating a giant sinkhole somewhere under my house.

Can you put a small amount of water into the toilet flange continuously, and the standing water stays about the same level? Then stopping adding water, the standing water never drains away? It seems to me that that could be caused by a belly in the pipe, or it could be a clog in the bottom part of the pipe that serves as a dam that can pass water over the top.

Yep, this is exactly what happens. I'm obviously no expert, but those definitely sound plausible. I do think my next step is to get someone back out here now that the toilet's out of the way and run a camera to find out what's really going on.
 

Reach4

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I measured about 8 inches from the top of the pipe to the water, and 8 more inches from the water until I hit the bend at the bottom.
I was referring to the distance from the surface of the water straight down to the bottom of the pipe. If it is 1/4 inch, I would not think that would cause your problem. 1.5 inches would be indicating a significant problem.

I do think my next step is to get someone back out here now that the toilet's out of the way and run a camera to find out what's really going on.
You have given it a good try, and that will be a good move.
 

Reach4

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This is your problem there should be NO WATER there.
If there was a sag giving a 1/4 inch deep puddle in the 3 inch PVC under the slab for 60 years, would you be worried about that? It is not right. But I would not think it would cause the observed problem.
 

Reach4

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I think he means horizontal inches in a horizontal pipe, unless I misunderstood.
 

Cacher_Chick

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A clear drain that is properly pitched will not hold any water. One should be able to get a snake in from the closet bend the full distance out and beyond the perimeter of the house. Since you know where the outside cleanout is in relation to the toilet, the general path of the piping should be pretty clear when considering where an obstruction might be.
 
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