Dishwasher tie in? See diagram photo

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Mista T

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Hello Forum- I'd like to tie my DW discharge into the existing standpipe used for clothes washer. Can I simply run a longer flexible discharge hose to the basement standpipe?
What type of fitting should be used at the top of the standpipe to accomdate both appliances?
Or is there a need to create another standpipe & p-trap under the kitchen sink area?

What is the correct way to accomplish this?

Many thanks for your continued help!
Tom
 

Mista T

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WHY??????
HJ, assume your asking why tie the DW discharge into Drywell? To lessen the load on a nearly 60 year old, two-tank cesspool system. We don't have a municipal sewer system in my area.

Any thoughts on how best to correctly accomplish the task as detailed in my original post?

Thanks!
 

WJcandee

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Hate to break the bad news, but if your private wastewater treatment system is failing, cutting out the dishwasher isn't going to make a material difference. Assuming that the system was properly-sized for your home when installed, if it's straining to do the job, it's time to bite the bullet and get it fixed.

And not to be preachy, but it's incumbent on any homeowner who has a private wastewater treatment system to maintain it properly and in accordance with state regulations. Those who duck this responsibility are really giving a big middle finger to their neighbors. Failed treatment systems routinely have environmental impacts that affect others in the community, even those miles away. That's why the fines are so high, although most jurisdictions are pretty-practical about these things (at least initially), and just want things fixed fast. Here in New York State, there is a massive crackdown on non-compliant systems in Nassau and Suffolk counties, because whole communities' quality of life have been shown to be affected by a single failed system. In our jurisdiction, the local jurisdiction will pump a septic tank annually for free, and have the system inspected for free, and yet many people neither pump nor inspect in the hopes that they can hide their failed system. New laws this year target those folks in a pretty-dramatic way.

I sympathize, having gone through the process of discovering that our system had been damaged by an outside source and subsequently failed. Replacement was the only option, which was expensive, but we had a first-class replacement job done by a superb contractor, and now have a system that will work well for another fifty years or more. Given that the house can't be sold with a failing system, one might as well reap the benefits of a robust, working system while one lives there, rather than paying for the repairs to be done near the time of sale.

I'm not sure what a "two-tank cesspool" is, but I'm assuming that this is actually a septic system that uses two tanks to accomplish what the baffle does in a modern septic tank. I hope so, because cesspools are nasty things that contaminate groundwater as well as the areas around them and are now illegal in a lot of states. In any event, if the tank setup is still solid, than repairs such as modifications to the drain fields can keep things going for a long time without the need for a whole new system.

Modern dishwashers are pretty-stingy with water, and are typically used only once-a-day or less. Replacing your toilets with 1.28 or 1.0 gpf units will likely go much further towards reducing septic load than taking the dishwasher offline, depending, of course, on household size.
 
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Mista T

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Hate to break the bad news, but if your private wastewater treatment system is failing, cutting out the dishwasher isn't going to make a material difference. Assuming that the system was properly-sized for your home when installed, if it's straining to do the job, it's time to bite the bullet and get it fixed.

And not to be preachy, but it's incumbent on any homeowner who has a private wastewater treatment system to maintain it properly and in accordance with state regulations. Those who duck this responsibility are really giving a big middle finger to their neighbors. Failed treatment systems routinely have environmental impacts that affect others in the community, even those miles away. That's why the fines are so high, although most jurisdictions are pretty-practical about these things (at least initially), and just want things fixed fast. Here in New York State, there is a massive crackdown on non-compliant systems in Nassau and Suffolk counties, because whole communities' quality of life have been shown to be affected by a single failed system. In our jurisdiction, the local jurisdiction will pump a septic tank annually for free, and have the system inspected for free, and yet many people neither pump nor inspect in the hopes that they can hide their failed system. New laws this year target those folks in a pretty-dramatic way.

I sympathize, having gone through the process of discovering that our system had been damaged by an outside source and subsequently failed. Replacement was the only option, which was expensive, but we had a first-class replacement job done by a superb contractor, and now have a system that will work well for another fifty years or more. Given that the house can't be sold with a failing system, one might as well reap the benefits of a robust, working system while one lives there, rather than paying for the repairs to be done near the time of sale.

I'm not sure what a "two-tank cesspool" is, but I'm assuming that this is actually a septic system that uses two tanks to accomplish what the baffle does in a modern septic tank. I hope so, because cesspools are nasty things that contaminate groundwater as well as the areas around them and are now illegal in a lot of states. In any event, if the tank setup is still solid, than repairs such as modifications to the drain fields can keep things going for a long time without the need for a whole new system.

Modern dishwashers are pretty-stingy with water, and are typically used only once-a-day or less. Replacing your toilets with 1.28 or 1.0 gpf units will likely go much further towards reducing septic load than taking the dishwasher offline, depending, of course, on household size.
 

Mista T

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Thanks for your comments. However, I never said my cesspool system is failing. In fact, at 60 years old its in rather good shape. I monitor both cesspools (main & overflow) every other month via the 4" access pipes/caps we installed. Had main pool pumped 2x in last 10 years without issue. I'm simply easing the burden on the cesspools by diverting grey-water over to the newly installed 100 gallon surge tank-drywell.

My Bosch DW uses >6 gallons per cycle. Times 30 days = 180 gals/mo. or <2,000 gals/yr. Not a tremendous amount of water but still more than zero.

Believe you me I only wish the politicians who have mostly failed us here in NY had utilized our tax dollars efficiently & responsibly and installed modern municipal sewer systems rather than the antiquated cesspool systems many homeowners in this area are still forced to contend with. Disgraceful...
 

WJcandee

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Totally agree. In our jurisdiction, the sewer stopped outside the area in which our home is located and never was expanded. Of course, the low-lying area issue that would have required a few thousand dollars extra 50 years ago now would be a major expense. The low-lying areas are now, of course, a major environmental concern, making replacing low-lying septic systems even more expensive. Logically, those should have been the first, not the last, to be connected to the sewer, but municipal projects are born of municipal politics, so...

Obviously, you are more informed than most people asking such questions here. A couple of higher-level thoughts, then.

One issue for you will be that "Gray Water" in the New York Plumbing Code is defined as
"Waste water discharged from lavatories, bathtubs, showers, clothes
washers and laundry sinks." The reason for this is that stuff from the dishwasher has food particles that really need to be processed by your septic system. (This definition is only for limited approved greywater treatment and recycling systems, so even if you had an approved filtration system that was recycling your greywater for use to flush toilets, for example, you couldn't run the dishwasher into it.)

That drywell could get really nasty with grease and food particles flowing into it.

Beyond that, though, Appendix 75-A of the New York Wastewater Treatment Standards promulgated by the NYS Department of Health (which cannot be relaxed by local ordinance), defines "sewage" to mean "the combination of human and household waste with water which is discharged to the home plumbing system including the waste from a flush toilet, bath, sink, lavatory, dishwashing or laundry machine, or the water-carried waste from any other fixture, equipment or machine". And "sewage" is supposed to go into the septic system, with specific exceptions that don't include the dishwasher.

Given that your system was probably designed for 150 gallons/bedroom/day, that six gallons isn't going to hurt the thing. And the flow in the lines might help push along organic matter that isn't getting washed out by toilets and showers the way it used to be with higher-flow fixtures.

Good luck!
 

Mista T

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Totally agree. In our jurisdiction, the sewer stopped outside the area in which our home is located and never was expanded. Of course, the low-lying area issue that would have required a few thousand dollars extra 50 years ago now would be a major expense. The low-lying areas are now, of course, a major environmental concern, making replacing low-lying septic systems even more expensive. Logically, those should have been the first, not the last, to be connected to the sewer, but municipal projects are born of municipal politics, so...

Obviously, you are more informed than most people asking such questions here. A couple of higher-level thoughts, then.

One issue for you will be that "Gray Water" in the New York Plumbing Code is defined as
"Waste water discharged from lavatories, bathtubs, showers, clothes
washers and laundry sinks." The reason for this is that stuff from the dishwasher has food particles that really need to be processed by your septic system. (This definition is only for limited approved greywater treatment and recycling systems, so even if you had an approved filtration system that was recycling your greywater for use to flush toilets, for example, you couldn't run the dishwasher into it.)

That drywell could get really nasty with grease and food particles flowing into it.

Beyond that, though, Appendix 75-A of the New York Wastewater Treatment Standards promulgated by the NYS Department of Health (which cannot be relaxed by local ordinance), defines "sewage" to mean "the combination of human and household waste with water which is discharged to the home plumbing system including the waste from a flush toilet, bath, sink, lavatory, dishwashing or laundry machine, or the water-carried waste from any other fixture, equipment or machine". And "sewage" is supposed to go into the septic system, with specific exceptions that don't include the dishwasher.

Given that your system was probably designed for 150 gallons/bedroom/day, that six gallons isn't going to hurt the thing. And the flow in the lines might help push along organic matter that isn't getting washed out by toilets and showers the way it used to be with higher-flow fixtures.

Good luck!

You make some good points about the DW discharge. Perhaps I will leave well enough alone and simply keep the drywell dedicated for the clothes washer.

Thanks for the though provoking input!
 

hj

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Your problem if you do it that way is that you will create a siphon which will pull ALL the water out of the dishwasher anytime it starts to drain.
 
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